Adela loves her dad. “He’s a great husband, a great grandfather, and I just would never do anything to jeopardize the relationship,” she says. There’s just one thing: he voted for Trump because of where he stands on Israel. And now she’s wrestling with her abiding love for him and the political rift it may cause in the family.
Our expert, Victoria Defrancesco Soto, is a political scientist and the assistant dean of civic engagement at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin. She is also a contributor for MSNBC.
You can check out Victoria's research at her website. If you loved this episode, be sure to check out Papí and I Don't Talk, We Argue and Trying to Warn Mom about COVID-19 from Afar.
We’d love to hear your stories of triumph and frustration so send us a detailed voice memo to hello@talktomamipapi.com. You might be on a future episode!
Let’s connect on Twitter and Instagram at @TalkToMamiPapi and email us at hello@talktomamipapi.com. And subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Juleyka Lantigua-Williams: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to How to Talk to [Mamí and Papí] About Anything. I’m the host and creator, Juleyka Lantigua-Williams. First, a deep bow of gratitude to everyone who has listened, shared, and reached out about the show. We’ve loved hearing from you and have delighted at every single tweet. As you know, I’ve been talking to adult children of immigrant parents and experts about what seemed like intractable conversations. So far, we’ve talked mostly about moms and personal relationships. That changes today. In this episode, Adela tells us about struggling to understand her father’s political stance, especially after he voted for Donald Trump. Let’s get into it.
Adela: Hi, my name is Adela. I am Jewish. I was born in America, but my father was born in Israel and my mother was born in England, and in my family, we call our parents mom and dad. Growing up, my parents have always been Democrats, and I’ve always been a Democrat, fairly liberal, and that’s just… There really was no heavy political conversation in our family, just because we were all Democrats and that was fine, and everybody was copacetic.
But after Obama, my dad decided to vote for Trump, and it was a really big deal in my family. My mom, she had a hard time with it. She ended up not voting, which made me mad for other reasons. She almost felt like she either had to go against my dad… If she voted, she was for sure not gonna vote for Trump, and so she felt like if she did vote and she voted for Hillary, it would be like going against my dad. So, what’s weird is, is my dad has always voted Democrat, and he vote for Obama two times, but then when the 2016 election came and he was evaluating kind of how the Democrats have treated Israel, he felt like Obama really screwed over Israel, and that Hillary was going to do the same, and he’s a one-issue voter. He really votes on that one issue, despite the fact that my brother and I were born here, we will stay here. He has two grandchildren who are young kids, who are going to grow up here, are going to have to face the effects of climate change and all of the policies, but he still votes on one issue, and it’s Israel, and for him it’s really existential, like he really feels… And I understand why he feels that way, but he feels like the existence of Israel hangs in the balance, like it is very much a thing that… It might not exist tomorrow if the right policies aren’t in effect, and so he votes on that one issue.
My dad was actually born before it was Israel, so he lived through the war of independence, so he saw it go from not being a thing, to being a thing, and a lot of political will around Israel came after World War II and after the Holocaust, and there was like no place for Jewish people to go. And it is considered a homeland. For it to have not existed and now exist, it means that it could go in the reverse direction so quickly, too. He also has fought in a war and lived through hearing like Yasser Arafat say something like, “The only good Jew is a dead Jew.” So, the idea of making peace with people who feel that way or said that at one point is just not on the table.
So, my dad has always felt I think a little bit guilty about leaving Israel, so there’s a guilt factor there, too. I don’t think I ever fully aligned with his vision. I loved Israel, because I had family there, and I had really strong ties to it. I was never a really hardcore political person to begin with, but I understand the nuances, and I could see the gray, and not just the black and white, whereas my dad is much more of a black and white type of person. It’s either you’re a good guy, or you’re a bad guy. You’re not kind of in the middle. So, for me, I can see the gray. I can see both sides. And I try to take myself out of the history, and the gut feeling, and the personal feelings I have about my family that lives there and stuff, and I try to explain to me dad, like, “Look, I can say that I don’t like the government of Israel without saying that I hate Israel. That’s not the same statement. That is like saying that I don’t like Trump, but I still love America. You have that ability to do both.”
So, when I said this to my dad, he just smiles and nods, and then doesn’t change his mind. There’s no changing anybody’s mind in politics. I think we all know that. So, it’s just trying to come to a common ground of agreeing not to talk about it, or just agreeing to disagree, so I think I’ve given up trying to change his mind on anything altogether. I would never, ever alienate my relationship with my father. I just… I love him to death. He loves me to death. There’s nothing he wouldn’t do for me. I just… I can’t imagine a situation that would ever make me want to lessen my relationship with my father.
It is what it is. This is politics, and people have different opinions, and you have to let people have different opinions. I’m never gonna force him to change his mind. I hope that he’ll open his eyes, but it’s unlikely, and I still love him to death. He was a great father. He’s a great husband, a great grandfather, and I just would never do anything to jeopardize the relationship.
Lantigua-Williams:
I bet many of you nodded along listening to Adela. I definitely did. I’ve been on her side of political arguments many, many times, but I know it doesn’t have to be tense all the time. So, maybe I, maybe we, could use some help understanding why it’s so hard to get along when it comes to politics. Let’s call in an expert.
Victoria DeFrancesco Soto:
My name is Victoria DeFrancesco Soto. I am the Assistant Dean of Civic Engagement at the LBJ School of Public Affairs, and a proud political scientist by training, and all-around political nerd.
Lantigua-Williams:
Love it. From a fellow political nerd, you’re my people.
DeFrancesco Soto:
Right on.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, you heard Adela’s story. What do you make of it?
DeFrancesco Soto:
It’s a lot more common than I think folks think. Her dad is a classic single-issue voter, and single-issue voters can be from any issue, right? In this case, it was about Israel. For some folks it’s about being pro life or pro choice. For some folks it’s about the right to bear arms. For other folks, it’s universal healthcare. It’s one of the things that unites both people on the left and the right, because you will find people who are staunch single-issue voters on both sides of the aisle, so in a way it’s kind of the one thing that unites all Americans, is that we all have a bunch of single-issue voter folks.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, how does a person get to be a single-issue voter?
DeFrancesco Soto:
Yeah, I think it’s interesting, because you have a couple of factors at play here, and one is, and let me put on my political psychologist hat, which is there are cognitive and affective reasons why you see folks end up falling into this category, because from the cognitive piece, our brains like simplicity. They like shortcuts. It’s easier to go with what’s black or white, rather than to fuddle around in the gray area. So, there’s the cognitive piece, but then there’s also the emotional piece, the affective piece, and even though our brain is part of any decision-making process, the heart plays a big role, too. For better or for worse, and a lot of times these issues end up carrying a lot of emotional weight for us.
You know, it may be like in the case of the story we heard, was that her father was there during the creation of Israel, and it has a very close connection to him as a young man, and formation into adulthood, and what that family tie brings. For other folks, it may be a lived experience, so for example, if we’re talking about pro life or pro choice, having gone through a major medical issue, you see that falling into that narrative of wanting universal healthcare. So, like most things in life, it’s usually a combination of the nice little informational shortcut you get on the cognitive side, but also the power of emotion on the affective side.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, I love that you actually used the same phrase that Adela used. She said, “It’s so black and white for him.” And so, I absolutely see how in his formation, in his self-identity, as a young man in Israel, this would definitely become something that imprinted him. But then he has a wife and he has children who seem to have different political alignments, and so why is it difficult for single-issue voters to move either away from their staunch stance, or to even embrace an alternative, even in the face of loved ones basically advocating on behalf of a different point of view?
DeFrancesco Soto:
Again, I’m gonna go back to the heart and the mind. One piece of it is it’s the simplicity, that you know what? This is what’s important to me and you can’t argue with what is or is not important to me. So, you may have other reasons for why you don’t like Trump or any other candidate, but I have my reason, and this is where I’m gonna stand, and you’re not gonna move me. And then there is the emotional piece, that even though they’re of the same family unit, that every person is different, and every person has different lived experiences, and so I think that that’s also where you see differences in ideology or partisanship come up within the same family, is because we are all different, just kind of in who we are and how we think, but also our lived experiences, even in being in the same family unit.
Lantigua-Williams:
This is the thing that I love about these conversations with our guests. Clearly, Adela is a very politically astute person, and she probably gets that from her dad, who has been politically aware his whole life. So, in general, when we talk politics with loved ones, with acquaintances, what are some of your dos and don’ts in terms of keeping it civil, while still being able to get your points across?
DeFrancesco Soto:
Easier said than done. Try to not let emotions seep in. That’s a tough one. It probably is eventually going to come in, but I think the very first thing I would say is first, find common ground. When you find yourself talking to a loved one, or a friend, or even a new person that you sit down next to in kind of a different era on the plane, is first, find common ground. What do you agree on ideologically? What are things that… Find something good that you can say about Trump if you’re Adela, and ask the dad to say something good about Hillary Clinton, and I think pushing yourself to find that commonality then softens the ground to state why you disagree and put the points forward of why that is.
And I think the other piece is also, and this is for me, coming as a scientist, as a political scientist who likes data, and facts, and polling, but understand that sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants, and that you are not going to move some people, but at least trying to understand them and have them understand your position.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, that’s a perfect segue, because after the 2016 election, there were a lot of people saying, “Oh, my friend voted for Trump and I’m never talking to them again.” Or, “My uncle voted for Trump and I’m never inviting him over again.” Or just cutting people off who voted differently than they did. Now, is that ever worth it? How do you see that type of extreme reaction?
DeFrancesco Soto:
Well, I see that extreme reaction as first of all, natural. It’s a rejection of something that we don’t agree with, but once the heart cools down and you’re like, “Okay, what’s going on here? What is at the root?” The problem is that by rejecting those folks, you’re making the problem worse. That by further walking away, that we’re not going to come together to forge that purpleness of our country, that common fabric that holds us together. And it may feel uncomfortable, and I may not like it, but I need to force myself to talk with and engage those people who I may not agree with or may not have voted with me. Obviously, there are some people that get very ugly, and on both sides of the aisle, and I think that you wouldn’t want to engage with those people to begin with, but to just write someone off because of how they voted, I fear leads us in the opposite direction we need to be moving in as a country in this day and age.
Lantigua-Williams:
All right, so let’s say that I’m one of these people who has people in their lives who voted in ways that I strongly disagree with. How do I prepare myself to go into these conversations?
DeFrancesco Soto:
A couple of deep breaths, to begin with. Maybe a little meditation. You know, I am a big fan of the Socratic method. Ask questions. Because when we make assumptions, that’s when we kind of put ourselves in a defensive position, and we assume that they’re doing it for these reasons, and you know what? Don’t assume, ask. Ask the questions. Keep asking. Keep understanding. And I’m not saying that you’re gonna agree with the reasons they’re giving you, but at least you have a sense of what their lived experiences are and where they’re coming from. And then hopefully the other person will ask the same questions back, and if they don’t, then volunteer, “Well, let me tell you about why I feel the way I do.” And so, I think it’s a fact-finding mission to begin with, and then you ask each other, “Well, where is there the common middle ground here?”
Lantigua-Williams:
Okay, so I have a broader poli-sci question for you, which is that in our increasing hyperpartisanship, we have also become very comfortable in labeling people. Those East Coast liberals, those Bible Belt conservatives, et cetera. So, how do you deal with someone who comes at you treating you and engaging with you from the lens of a political stereotype like that?
DeFrancesco Soto:
You need to personalize the conversation first, and say, “I am,” in my case, “I am Vicki. I am a mother. I am a professor. I am a daughter.” And you talk about who you are and what matters to you. “My favorite food is fettuccine alfredo.” And you just personalize, because social group identities are a useful informational shortcut, but then at the same time, they lose that nuance, and then you start to dehumanize the person. So, my response to that is humanize it in. Who are you? I am a ridiculous NCAA basketball fan. I am-
Lantigua-Williams:
Which is also very political.
DeFrancesco Soto:
Yes, which is a whole different conversation, but you know, I am not this one thing. I am multidimensional. I am quirky. Just as all of us are, so let’s get back to who we actually are, and then we can get back to the big group identities and deal with those.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, are there any other red flags or pitfalls to avoid when we are dealing with loved ones and politics from your vantage point?
DeFrancesco Soto:
Like in any difficult conversation, there’s a time and a place. So, I would say that maybe when you’re sitting out on the deck, and everything is really relaxed and calm, that might be a good moment to bring it up, rather than if the kids are running around. I know Adela has kids, and the grandkids are screaming, and people are shouting over each other, that’s not the time to have these conversations. It’s timing is everything.
Lantigua-Williams:
All right, let’s recap what we learned from Victoria. Try not to let emotions seep in. Find common ground. Look for what you agree on. Ask questions. Do not make assumptions. Ask questions. Do not make assumptions! Avoid rejecting or simply writing off the person. That can actually make things worse. Personalize the conversation. Describe who you are. Talk about your life and about what’s important to you. And remember, timing is everything. Pick a good, low-stress time to talk politics.
Thank you so much for listening. How to Talk to [Mamí and Papí] About Anything is an original production of Lantigua Williams & Co. Micaela Rodríguez produced this episode. Kojin Tashiro mixed it. Cedric Wilson is our lead producer. We’d love to hear your stories, so email us at hello@talktomamipapi.com. Even if you don’t want to be on the show, email us or hit us up on Twitter or Instagram, so I can send you some sweet show stickers. On Twitter and Instagram, we’re @talktomamipapi, and remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts. Bye, everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua-Williams, Juleyka, host. “Dad Voted for Trump.” How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything, Lantigua Williams & Co., May 22, 2020. TalkToMamiPapi.com.