Rafe was sexually assaulted as a teen, and only began to open up to his family about it and his sexual identity as an adult. He now feels very much loved but bears the scars of the incident and the silence around it. And, Juleyka speaks with Rosalia Rivera, an abuse prevention expert who works with survivor parents, about how to teach consent and body autonomy in our families.
Featured Expert:
Rosalia Rivera is a consent educator, sexual literacy advocate, change agent, founder of Consent Parenting, host of the About Consent podcast, creatrix of CONSENTwear and child sexual abuse survivor turned thriver. She helps child sexual abuse survivors who are now parents learn how to educate their children on body safety, boundaries and consent so that they can empower their child to prevent abuse. Unlike safety education programs by non-survivors that can't relate to the struggle, fears, and triggers of survivor parents; Rosalia offers sensitive, empowering and non-fear action & implementation based how-to-courses with guided support. To learn more about her work visit her website here.
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Juleyka Lantigua-Williams:
Hi, everybody. Juleyka here. Before we start, I want to make sure that you know that today’s episode contains adult content, and specifically, we’re going to be talking about sexual violence. So, if you want to, find someone to listen with or don’t listen at all. might be difficult for some of us. Today, we’re revisiting a conversation we had with Rafe, who was our guest a little while ago. When Rafe came on the show, he shared his story about coming out to his family, but he also shared that he’d been sexually assaulted, and so we wanted this time around to get a little bit deeper into that and see how we can learn about behaviors in our own families that may contribute to folks like Rafe experiencing sexual trauma. Let’s get into it.
Rafe: Hi, my name is Rafe. I am 29 years old and at home, we call my mom and dad mom and dad. I have two older brothers, Daniel and Michael, and a middle-class family, great family, and I love them. I was in the ninth grade. I was with one of my friends, Joanne. She was the first person that I told, and at the time, I actually told her that I was bisexual. I didn’t tell her that I was gay. Joanne’s like, “Yeah, you know, there’s someone else that I want you to meet.” And I’m like, “Listen, the last time you put me through this shit, it didn’t end up the way that I wanted it to.”
And she’s like, “No, but he’s a great guy. I think you’ll like him.” So, I meet Jay. Jay ends up texting me and saying, “Hey, I’m almost off of work. I would love to see you and swing by your place. I’m driving.” I was like, “Okay, cool.” He’s like, “I’m also with my friend, Nick.” I was like, “Wait a minute.” He’s like, “Yeah, Nick. You guys sort of know each other.” And I was like, “Oh, get the [expletive deleted] out of here.”
So, I was like, “Okay, swing by.” I want to say it was like 9:00 or 9:30. The Sopranos is on. I was like, “All right, it’s my chance to sneak out of the house.” I’ve never done this before. I’m a little nervous. I kind of want to hang out with him. I haven’t seen Nick in forever and Jay was driving, and Nick and I are in the back, and he’s sort of feeling me up, kissing me, all of those things, and it was a really, really difficult night for me, because there was… I went from zero to 100 really quick. And there was a lot of pressure involved in the whole experience. And to make a long story nauseous, I was sexually assaulted that night.
I felt really weird, and that being my first sexual experience, I felt really weird. I then ended up sneaking back into the house. My brother is walking past, and he looks at me and he’s like, “You were just out having sex.” I didn’t know what to say. I was at a loss for words. And he’s like, “Okay, so how was she?” And I then mentioned… I was like, “You know, it wasn’t with a girl.” He’s like, “Listen, I don’t want to hear about it, but I want you to be happy.” I did not tell him that I was assaulted. I didn’t mention any of that. I kept that to myself for years.
I want to say a few months later, I get this call from my mom. She had noticed my Myspace profile, and on it, it said that I was bisexual. She was really surprised and taken aback by it. She ended up hanging up the phone. I called Michael. I was like, “Listen, Mike. Mom knows. I don’t know what to do at this point. She said she wants to talk to me, like the scariest words a parent could tell you.” You know, my mom being and finding herself in God, which I love, there was a lot that she didn’t understand, and so she was confused, and she wasn’t very accepting. Would talk about it here and there, and it starts to normalize.
Before I know it, we’re watching TV and she starts asking me questions about like, “All right, so do you think that he’s cute?” And I’m like, “What?” I went through my rebellious stage as a teenager and my mom and I didn’t really have the best relationship as I was discovering myself, but I definitely feel loved. At this point in my life, I can say with confidence that I am loved.
Lantigua-Williams:
Rafe’s story has stayed with me since I first met him. During our interview, I was really moved by his bravery and his self-knowledge, and his amazing capacity for forgiveness. But I was also really angry and really scared. As a mom of two boys, that conversation confirmed for me how urgent it is for our families to create spaces where everyone feels safe opening up, setting boundaries, and making their own decisions about their bodies. To help us figure out how to do that in our families, I called in an expert.
Rosalia Rivera: My name is Rosalía Rivera and I’m a consent educator, an abuse prevention expert, and a sexual literacy advocate. I’m also the founder of Consent Parenting and the host of the About Consent Podcast, and the creatrix of CONSENTwear, so it’s a big, big title. And what I do is really work with parents to help them navigate teaching abuse prevention to their kids. I work very specifically with parents who are survivors of sexual trauma themselves, particularly communities of color.
Lantigua-Williams:
I’m gonna start with the same question I always start. You heard Rafe’s testimony, his story. What did you hear as you listened?
Rivera: I heard what is unfortunately a very common experience for LGBTQ+ youth. Experiences that you kind of feel are sort of a secret. Many times, young people don’t share, and they go into adulthood with these traumas that were unresolved, and it sounded like although he’s got a great relationship with his family and seems to have overcome a lot of that, that there is still some hurt there, and obviously some experiences that probably led to really shaping his understanding of sexuality and consent.
Lantigua-Williams:
As someone who works in this field, what are some of the dynamics at play and how do they inform the decision-making process for someone who is potentially in line to experience something like this?
Rivera: I think it starts with children growing up in a space where they don’t understand their place in the world, and so that leads to a lot of insecurity about who they are, their body autonomy, and how that plays into relationships. So, what I realized when I listened to it was that there probably wasn’t any conversation in the home about body rights. There wasn’t obviously much of a conversation around different types of sexuality or sexual orientation. And so, there’s a lot that doesn’t get spoken about, and that leads to a lot of questions that are unanswered and kids get put into situations that are not necessarily safe, and that they don’t have the skills for how to either deal with it in the moment or after the fact.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, how can parents who you work with specifically create an environment that allows for those types of conversations in which that confidence can really develop in their children?
Rivera: one of the things I come across quite often is parents are afraid to open up topics about sex ed with their children and they think that they have to wait until they reach puberty, and we actually can be empowering our kids from the age of two. And I know that that sounds pretty traumatic for a lot of parents, like how do I talk to my kids about sex at two? But we are actually just teaching them about their bodies, and if we can start from the point of empowering them about their bodies, about private parts, and the rights to their bodies, what’s safe and not safe, that’s a really powerful foundation for empowerment.
And from that position of empowerment, you can start what I call scaffolding the information, right? So, as they age and develop, we start teaching them about different types of bodies, and respecting people’s choices for how they feel, and giving them the understanding that different kinds of relationships all matter, and they can all be respected, and that we value and honor our children’s feelings about things, and their decisions about what they like and don’t like.
Lantigua-Williams:
I want to talk about particular behaviors, behaviors that I’ve seen in my family. For example, people who go into the restroom when you’re in there because they have to pee, they have to brush their teeth. It’s a revolving door. People who stay in the room when you’re getting undressed. Essentially, the scaffolding of bad behavior that does not encourage body autonomy or privacy, so that we can start to recognize that it’s not about sitting down, having a talk with your child, but really about standardizing and normalizing behavior that encourages them to understand that they own their body and that they have a right to have privacy with their body.
Rivera: Oh, my goodness. You just opened up Pandora’s box. This is such a hot topic, particularly with Latinx families, because that’s just not how we grew up. Here’s where I think a lot of people feel there’s a point of friction, is that they feel like it’s more Americanized to be more respectful of our children’s body rights.
Lantigua-Williams:
Yep.
Rivera: And I want to challenge parents to consider the messages that they’re really sending their children and take this away from the perspective of respect when it comes to children and elders, because I think it comes back to that a lot. A lot of people are like, “I don’t want my child being rude, so I want to make sure that they’re hugging or kissing their relatives when they’re greeting them.” Let’s reframe that for a second and think about what you’re really teaching here, which is that that person’s body is really here for my pleasure, or for my gratitude, right? They have to appease me. They have to please me by giving me this physical affection that’s not necessarily earned, so really, you’re being entitled, and from the child’s perspective, they’re seeing it as my choices don’t matter here. My rights don’t matter here. My body is here for the pleasure of others.
They might not have a good feeling about a particular person and we’re saying, “Reject those feelings. Reject that gut instinct and do what you’re told.” And so, what that translates to when they’re older is that they are in an environment, let’s say in a workspace, where somebody rubs them on their shoulder and it makes them feel uncomfortable, but they’ve been taught their whole life to appease and to stuff down those feelings of discomfort because it would be rude. That’s your superior.
Right now, you are looking at a tradition or a cultural norm that we should be questioning, and we should be critically thinking about and looking at what is the long-term effect of that, how does that serve our children long term, and is it something we really want to continue perpetuating?
Lantigua-Williams:
Yeah. In my family, I have two sons, 9 and 11, and we ask permission to hug. I used to, when they were younger, just like bombard them with affection, but now they’re getting into the tween, the weird tween, leading into teen, preteen area, and so now when I go to greet them, when I go to say goodnight to them, I say, “Can I have a hug? Can I give you a hug?” And sometimes the answer is no. And I just say, “Okay, I’ll just save it for you.”
Rivera: Yeah.
Lantigua-Williams:
I’ll save it for you, for tomorrow. That has been an adjustment for me, but I have… I have tried to think well into the future and saying, “What am I teaching them about their body autonomy?”
Rivera: Exactly.
Lantigua-Williams:
And it’s been really wonderful to see them exhibit those behaviors with other children and with themselves, although the little one is still learning about… You know, space and personal space. But anyways, I just wanted to give some explicit examples of what families can do early.
Okay, let’s go back to Rafe, because he actually has talked to his mom and it was a really difficult conversation, but he’s really self-aware and he has this really capacious emotional vocabulary, and so I imagine that that’s not the case all the time. So, how can someone who is a teen, an adult, even older, who feels like they need to broach a conversation about sexual assault or even sexual harassment with a relative, how can they do that in a way that is safe and productive?
Rivera: I think it’s so important that as someone who’s a survivor, who wants to share, feels that calling to be able to finally step up and share this with the family member, is to have some backup support outside of your family first. Because if you’re not quite sure how that family member is going to respond, it’s important to have some additional sort of safety nets in place. So, maybe that’s reaching out to a local youth center if you don’t have a friend that you feel comfortable sharing with. Someone that you know for sure has got your back.
And then the next step is to share small amounts of… sort of maybe in terms of even posing it as a question, how would you respond if somebody came to you and said XYZ? You know, or even make up a bit of a story if you feel like you are really not sure how that person’s gonna respond. You know, a friend of mine, this happened to them and they spoke to their parents, and their parents were really accepting of it, and I was really proud of that person for sharing what they shared. And see what they respond like, you know? What is their reaction to that? And so, you can kind of set it up what it is that you would like in response.
And if it’s a positive response, you can then disclose and say, “I actually wanted to share it in that way because I wanted to make sure you were a safe person to share this with, and it was actually me who that happened to.” And I think for any parent who is obviously wanting to be a support to their children, they will see that as, “Okay, obviously there was something about me that made them feel unsure if I was safe to share this with,” and maybe reconsider what their communication skills are like with their children. So, it’s an opportunity for everyone to feel safe in their ability to grow, so that’s one option.
The other is to share it in written form. It really gives the child the ability to really put everything on paper, so aside from sharing the experience, they can share everything else about maybe why they felt hesitant to share it verbally, or what they hope that that parent will respond with.
Lantigua-Williams:
Beautiful. All right, last question is what resources online or otherwise do you recommend that people go to if they need the vocabulary, if they need more context about how to have these conversations, whether they’re the parent, or relative, or whether they are the young person or the person who has something to share and disclose?
Rivera: I would say… I mean, there’s so many great resources for parents. Depending on where you are, for example in the U.S., one of the best websites is DarknessToLight.org, and has lots of information about the issue of abuse, as well as resources for how to start having these conversations. I will shamelessly plug Consent Parenting, as well, because I do have a lot of resources in blog format, as well, so tons of videos that really help you start to think about and have some language around it.
And in terms of for youth, there’s a really great website called Project Healthy Minds, and it has really great resources specifically for youth who are looking for mental health support around this topic.
Lantigua-Williams:
Rosalía, you are such a blessing. Thank you so much for the work that you do. Thank you for coming on the show.
Rivera: Thank you so much, and I appreciate you sharing about this topic so bravely and openly and thank you for inviting me.
Lantigua-Williams:
All right, let’s recap what we learned from Rosalía. Start early. Age-appropriate conversations about body autonomy can pave the way for later conversations about sexual orientation, consent, and abuse. Start early. Test the waters. If you want to disclose an experience of abuse and are unsure how a relative might respond, share small pieces of information first, or a hypothetical situation to gauge their reaction. But relatives, it is on us to be the safe spaces. And remember, get some backup. You can always find someone who can support you, someone who is trusted, someone who has knowledge, someone who is prepared to listen to you if you need to disclose something. You do not have to do this alone.
Rafe’s original episode, Coming Out to My Family, aired on October 26, 2020. You can find it on our feed and on our website.
Lantigua-Williams:
Thank you for listening and for sharing us. How to Talk to [Mamí and Papí] About Anything is an original production of Lantigua Williams & Co. Virginia Lora is the show’s producer. Kojin Tashiro is our mixer. Manuela Bedoya is our social media editor. Cedric Wilson is our lead producer. Jen Chien is our executive editor. I’m the creator, Juleyka Lantigua-Williams. On Twitter and Instagram, we’re @TalktoMamiPapi. Please follow us and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts. Bye, everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua-Williams, Juleyka, host. “How to Teach Consent in Our Families.”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything,
Lantigua Williams & Co., April 19, 2021. TalkToMamiPapi.com.