Stephanie would like to talk more openly abut sex, intimacy and sexuality with her mom. The two are really close, but they've never been comfortable discussing any of this. And, a sex educator offers strategies (and a cool acronym) to help us get started talking about sex with our parents.
Featured Expert:
Dulce Rodriguez is a licensed clinical social worker and a sex educator-in-training based in Albuquerque, NM. On the clinical side she works with survivors of sexual abuse. In addition, she is also a sex educator working specifically with immigrant families. She conducts community workshops providing science-based sex education from a social justice lens, and creating spaces that encourages dialogue around sex and sexuality
If you loved this episode, be sure to listen to Coming Out to My Family, and My Divorce, My Parents, And Me.
We’d love to hear your stories of triumph and frustration so send us a detailed voice memo to hello@talktomamipapi.com. You might be on a future episode! Let’s connect on Twitter and Instagram at @TalkToMamiPapi and email us at hello@talktomamipapi.com. And subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Juleyka Lantigua-Williams:
Hi, everybody. Today, I’m talking to Stephanie, and we’re talking about sex, so you might want to listen by yourself and with headphones on. Stephanie has a very close relationship with her mom. They confide in each other about most things, but they’ve never been able to talk about sex or intimacy, and this has been hard for Stephanie. I imagine it’s hard for many of us, so let’s get into it.
Stephanie: My name is Stephanie. I’m 25. I was born and raised in Miami. I am first generation. I currently live in Miami and I am a social worker. I work with young children, and their families, and in my family we call our parents mamí and papí.
My relationship with my mom growing up was good for the most part. I think we had a very tight knit, close relationship. I always felt comfortable sharing things with her, and we always had very good communication. Very little conflict, I would say. The first time I experienced it, or experienced sex, was when I was still living with my mom, actually. I did want to talk to my mom before it happened and afterwards, because of all of the questions one has when you’re a virgin and you haven’t had any sexual intercourse, there’s many questions. But I never did, because I knew how conservative her views were, how uncomfortable the topic of sex would make her feel.
Her reactions whenever the topic of sex would come into the conversation, she would just try to change the subject. If I ever brought up the conversation of sex in the context of other people’s experience, because I never felt talking about my own experiences. You know, if I shared that if maybe a friend had a negative experience, she would say, “Well, she shouldn’t be doing that in the first place.” You know, she’d say things like, “Well, this is why there’s so much conflict in young people’s lives, because they’re sleeping around, they’re just too quick to have sex with the first person that they meet. And this is why you see so many young pregnant girls.” So, just by listening to those words, and seeing her own physical reaction, I knew that’s not a topic that she would want to even talk about.
The first time that I brought up the subject about being sexually active was after a volunteering experience I had. So, I’ve always volunteered with an agency. I’m not gonna mention the name, but it’s an agency that deals with HIV and STD prevention. I learned a lot about sex through volunteering with them. I shared something I had learned with her and I told her something about it that I experienced when I had sex the first time, and I tried not to emphasize too much that it was me that had experienced, I try to just kind of quickly put it into the conversation and then just kind of move on, but of course she noticed, and she was startled. She was not expecting it.
She said, “What did I just hear? Did you just say that when you were sexually active this happened?” And I clearly just say… You know, I just remember telling her, “Yeah, this was something that occurred, but you know, everything ended up being okay.” And I think she just didn’t know how to respond. She didn’t know what to say to me. I would have wanted her to tell me that these are things that happen. It’s a normal part of life. But she didn’t. She tried to shame me in some way. So, I would have liked to have heard her be more supportive.
I would say that she has not had the best sexual experiences. In terms of relationships and dating, she’s always shared pretty negative experiences, so by association I would say that her sexual experiences maybe haven’t been the best. I’ve had many negative associations with sex throughout most of my life and it wasn’t until I was a little older I started to educate myself and see sex in a new light by just getting more credible information, and there’s still a bit of shame attached. Not gonna lie. Yeah.
I’ve confided in her and trusted in her for almost everything, and to leave sex out just always felt odd to me. I never understood why it was so taboo.
Lantigua-Williams:
Sex and intimacy have to be among the hardest things to talk about with our parents. For anyone. But I definitely think they’re harder to talk about with your parents if they’re from another country and you grew up in the United States. There just has to be a way for us to figure this out, so to help us, I did what I always do. I called in an expert.
Dulce Rodriguez:
Hi. My name is Dulce Rodriguez. I am a clinical social worker. I live here in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I’ve been living here for the last seven years. I was raised in Mexico. My area of specialty is I’m actually getting certified as a sexuality educator, and so hopefully that’ll be done by next year.
Lantigua-Williams:
What did you hear in Stephanie’s story?
Rodriguez: Echo. Not echo like technical issues, but identification. I think that a lot of people that are going to hear that story, myself included, can identify with most everything about her story. I heard more than wanting to get information from mamí, from her mom, providing or giving her this new information that she had about sexuality. I think that it was more about building that bond and that relationship. In a nutshell, that’s kind of what I heard.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, you said echo. I’m assuming you mean you hear this a lot when you work with clients.
Rodriguez: Absolutely.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, when people talk about wanting to discuss intimacy and sex with their parents, what are some of the reasons, right? Because information is available quite literally in our hands, right? So, if we have a specific question, we can probably find out the specific answer. So, clearly this is about more than just getting information. What is it that’s at the root of this desire to have these conversations with our parents?
Rodriguez: Every time we talk about sexuality with our parents as adults, or with our children, or with anyone in our family, I think that we’re looking for a bond, relationship, a connection. You are absolutely right. If it was just about information, with the internet we can just go and search it. The ability of talking about something that, for instance, like let’s take Stephanie’s mom treating the issue like a taboo, and if you think about it, if I can speak about sexuality with my parents, for instance, is there anything else that is going to be more challenging to speak about?
So, it’s kind of like that last frontier we will be breaking down or bringing down, kind of like the last frontier of trust and connection with those that we love. Not just our parents, of course.
Lantigua-Williams:
I love how you phrased that, because it is something that we build up to. So, how do you advise people to approach these very delicate conversations with their parents?
Rodriguez: Let’s take the case of Stephanie. I even made a little… I’m full of acronyms, because when we give class, that’s how people remember too. So, I made this acronym of STAR, like a star. S, sexuality conversations are about relationships, not so much information. T is for take it all in. Take your parents, or whomever you’re speaking with, take it all in. So, follow their agenda, not yours. A is for acknowledge. Acknowledge the level of readiness that this person may or may not have to speak about this issue because of what happened to them. And then R, reactions. Read those reactions and act based on those.
So, maybe Stephanie approaching her mom can think about this. Okay, I’m trying to establish even a stronger connection with her. It’s not so much about the information. It’s not so much about what words are we gonna use or what topic are we gonna talk about. We’re gonna leave that to the side for now. So, Stephanie will have to take where her mom is. For instance, mom, she said something. She pretty much slut shamed. That’s what happened to those girls. You know, she was kind of asking for it. So, take that in. Stephanie can see that there has to be a lot of oppression that my mom went through in order for her to be thinking this way. Acknowledge that.
And we do say by saying, “You know, it must have been really hard for you. Or tell me more about that. What do you mean?” Kind of like playing dumb a little bit, if you will, because you want to explore what they have to say. Really what you’re doing is telling her, “I’m not here to judge you and I’m not here to school you on this, to teach you. Please, I want to know more.”
Lantigua-Williams:
I want to ask you what does an adult child need to understand, or need to know, or need to want to know about their parents’ own experiences with sex when and as they enter into this conversation?
Rodriguez: Well, number one, it’s my history of sexuality, or my sexuality experiences belong to me. So, I have the right to share those with, and when, and how I can and I want, right? That’s kind of like the first one. It doesn’t matter if I’m sharing it in public, or with my beloved daughter, or with my partner or partners, my parents, it doesn’t matter. So, the first one is that sexuality story belongs to that person.
And that takes us to the second very element that needs to be there, consent. It’s no surprise. It’s no surprise that Stephanie’s mother has only negative things to say or is speaking negatively, in a negative context about sexuality. We are just learning about consent. Older generations of course never heard of this, or the concept didn’t even exist, so we need to be very aware of that. And again, I say once you establish that bond, all of these conversations, topics, are going to… They’re gonna be kind of like a byproduct of this bond and this connection.
Lantigua-Williams:
What else do you think is important for this intergenerational dialogue to be successful for both parties to keep in mind?
Rodriguez: It’s never too late to start these conversations. It’s never too late. You know, just following the steps that I gave you, being mindful of the readiness of this other person across from you. It’s never too late. And you don’t have to… You know, we think, “Oh, let’s talk about sex and sexuality.” Most people think, “Well, we’re gonna be talking about pornography, and positions, and how to give better oral sex.” Which is very important, and we should be talking more about that. But you know, that’s starting kind of like at the hardest place. The riskiest, if you will, topics. So, I say start talking about body autonomy, for instance. Make questions, “Hey, you know, when you had me, did you have choices, like when you could have me? Or tell me more. Tell me more about how you got ready or maybe you weren’t ready to have me or to become pregnant with me.” Or, “Did you shave your legs? Or when you were in school did girls shave their legs? Was that a thing? How did they do it?”
Or even talking about periods, right? That’s such an ice breaker, a good ice breaker. Were tampons like everywhere where you lived? Right? So, having conversations that may not scream, “We’re talking about sexuality.” They’re not so… the way we see sexuality typically, but that are certainly related to sexuality and they can really start creating that bond.
Lantigua-Williams:
Fantastic. I love all those suggestions. Thank you so much, Dulce.
Rodriguez: Oh, thank you.
Lantigua-Williams:
All right, let’s recap what we learned from Dulce. Don’t stress. Conversations about sex have more to do with building trust and connection than with exchanging data or information. Go slow. Start with something that’s related to sex. Periods, body hair, shaving, all kinds of other things. And then use that conversation starter to feel out the level of comfort and to move on from there. And remember, ask questions first. Encourage your parent to share their thoughts and experiences to better understand where they’re coming from. This can help you continue the conversation without forcing it.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening and for sharing us. How to Talk to [Mamí and Papí] About Anything is an original production of Lantigua Williams & Co. Virginia Lora produced this episode. Michael Castañeda mixed it. Micaela Rodríguez is our founding producer and social media editor. Cedric Wilson is our lead producer. I’m the show’s creator, Juleyka Lantigua-Williams. On Twitter and Instagram, we’re @TalktoMamiPapi. Please subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts. Bye, everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua-Williams, Juleyka, host. “When Talking to Mamí about Sex Is Hard”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything,
Lantigua Williams & Co., January 4, 2021. TalkToMamiPapi.com.