In advance of National Mental Health Awareness Month in May, we’re featuring stories that help us talk about mental health with our immigrant families. In this episode Kayla is ready to take a bold step to manage her anxiety, but getting her protective family’s buy-in is a challenge. And writer and mental health advocate Carmen Cusido offers tips for being confident when prioritizing our wellbeing.
Featured Expert: Carmen Cusido is a longtime mental health advocate. She has written and spoken extensively about her struggle with depression and her recovery from anorexia. Her writing has appeared in Newsweek, Oprah Daily, Refinery29, Health, NBC, CNN, NPR, Next Avenue, Cosmopolitan, and other publications. Cusido has also spoken about grief and loss for publications like AARP Magazine en español and TV stations like Univision 41 and PBS/NJTV. She earned a bachelor’s from Rutgers University and a master’s degree from the Columbia School of Journalism. She also has taken courses at Harvard Business School and the Yale Writers Workshop. She lives in Northern New Jersey.
If you loved this episode, listen to Convincing Mamí My Depression is Not About Her and They Want More Family Time but You Don't.
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Juleyka Lantigua:
Hi everybody. On the show, we often hear from our guests and from you that one of the hardest topics to discuss with our relatives is mental health, our mental health, their mental health, everyone's mental health, and May happens to be Mental Health Awareness Month nationally. So for the next few weeks, we'll bring you episodes to help us all have more thoughtful and fruitful conversations around this really important topic. Today, we welcome Kayla. Kayla grew up in a multicultural black family where discussions around mental health were not the norm. To cope with her increasing anxiety at the height of the pandemic, she knew she had to do something big. She had a hunch that her protective parents wouldn't approve of the risk she was willing to take, but she broached the subject anyway.
Kayla: I'm Kayla. I'm originally from California. My family is Afro Colombian on my dad's side, he's originally from Cali, Colombia And then my mom is from LA and she's black American. So we grew up very much with a multicultural house, but everyone was black. I grew up calling both my parents mom and dad.
Growing up mental health wasn't something we talked about, so it took a while before I was comfortable bringing this up to my parents. I grew up in the Bay Area and then after my brother who's the youngest had graduated, my parents decided to move to the small town called Walla Walla, Washington. It's very pretty wine country, but it's very isolated.
I was at their house during the pandemic and it had been about two years at that point. I didn't know anyone outside of the three other people in the household, my brother and my parents, and so it was really challenging for me as somebody who was typically a little more extroverted and had this life where I was in a very busy city and I was often with friends and traveling and things like that.
And so my behavior started to change as anxiety became increasingly more of an issue for me. I went from bubbly Kayla with a bunch of color and willingness to do a bunch of things and go run outside to just this blob who barely wanted to take a shower.
Kayla: I started therapy for the first time and that ultimately culminated in me feeling like I needed to get away from the house and get away from the small town and do something that was a little bit more me. For me and where I was at the time, that was a month in San Juan. I loved being in the Caribbean. I've been there before. Some of my cousins are half boricua, and so it was like this is a place I know I love. I feel really safe there, but it was also still part of the US so I wouldn't get in trouble at work if I was there for an extended period of time virtually. So after I got my vaccine, I had this more serious conversation with my parents about mental health and anxiety and how I really just needed a break.
So I’d go back and forth with my therapist about, "Did you have that conversation?" Yeah, I was like, "Well, I was going to. And then my mom just seemed so happy. Dad was just chilling and I just didn't feel the need to bring this up and then destroy the vibe." And she was kind of like, "You have to have the conversation." I was like, "I know. I know, that’s what happens…” I kept putting it off because I wasn't sure how they're going to react." They definitely wouldn't want me to be in San Juan because I think part of why they were so glad we were in Walla Walla together was that we were within reach and so if there was something bad that happened, they could have some sense of control.
And so the thought of me going across the country to the Caribbean by myself I think was very hard for them to want to accept. I understood where they were coming from and so I tried to lead with that as I was explaining that I wanted them to feel a part of this process with me. I wanted them to know where I would stay, the kinds of things I was doing to keep myself safe. In the end, they were able to trust me, but I think it was also the recognition that I could just leave. I was like 27, so I don't need their permission to do that. They could tell that I wasn't going to not go, but I really wanted them to feel a part of the decision with me and to understand why it was so important to me. The first time I said it, it was still like, "It's so far. What happens to you, blah, blah, blah."
It made me second guess a little bit because I could see how scared my mom was in particular and my dad too. But then I also had to take a step back and realize that they act that way even if I go outside to get a taco. Every time I went outside to get fast food, my dad would be like, "Was it worth your life? Was it worth my life?" My parents were very strict because they have a lot of health issues, so we really didn't leave the house at all. There was a point where it was kind of like, if that's the reaction for me to go get french fries, I drive through with a mask on and a vaccine, then they're going to react that way to everything. And there's a point where I have to also step back. I couldn't just take everything they said at face value because if I was, I mean, that was part of why I was so anxious.
Kayla: While I was there, I would call regularly and show them photos and I think they could see I was becoming more myself. I kayak or snorkel every day by myself. I saw honestly the best sunset ever, this orangey color that reflected on the water. And so I was sitting there like illuminated by this beautiful sunset. The water's just glowing and you see just all these fish and it was honestly the most calm and at peace I think I've ever been. And so for me to have that experience but also know that a couple of weeks ago I was at my wits end, "Should I get on this plane? Should I do this thing," back and forth, back and forth in my head was just, I think a real big win for me personally. I am somebody who tends to know in the back of my head, "For me, this is the right decision and so I just have to kind of keep pushing forward."
Lantigua: I was so impressed by Kayla's determination to prioritize her mental health and wellbeing. Shout out to you, Kayla, seriously. But I was also touched by her willingness to bring along her family in her decision making process. I mean that is #maturity. Kayla's experience also made me wonder, what can we as first gens do to feel more comfortable making our own decisions and taking action around our mental health, especially when it means going against our family's opinions and advice?" How can we do this without damaging our relationships or without being weighted down by their fears and concerns? To help us figure out, you know what I did, I called in an expert.
Carmen Cusido: My name is Carmen Cusido. I am Cuban American based in northern New Jersey, and I am a mental health advocate and writer.
Lantigua: Simple question as always. As you listened, what did you hear in Kayla's story?
Cusido: Well, I thought she was very brave to share her story, of course, and the conflicts that someone faces when they're dealing with family that tend to be overprotective. I could hear that when parents and other family members just feel this need to protect their child or their niece or whatever you are to them. And then to set boundaries and to do what you need to do for yourself is very difficult, but it's also very brave.
Lantigua: And this was also happening during the pandemic, which of course just exacerbated everything.
Cusido: Yes.
Lantigua: So let's break it down a little bit. One, there's the component of fear. Something bad could happen, but the other is also the element of, "I can't control you if you are not near me." So are there different ways to approach addressing those two things?
Cusido: I think it's approaching it from the perspective of, "I'm a grownup and you've taught me well, and I'm using everything that you've taught me to go out into the world and at some point I need to go out into the world anyway." Similarly, I was also very much babied and just overprotected. My parents were 40 and 54 when I was born, and I kept reinforcing, "Papi, I'm a grownup. It's okay." And you have to reinforce that as painful as it is, there's going to be a point where they're no longer there and you have to learn how to be a grownup and do things that you think are good for you.
Lantigua: Right. So Kayla mentors this in passing, which is that, "I mean, I could have gone anyway, right?" Yes. Ultimately we all could just go, but there are implications for just going anyway. How do we navigate those?
Cusido: Being respectful and understanding that your family might have certain fears, but fears and thoughts are just that. They're just thoughts. It doesn't mean it's going to become reality. To maybe reinforce that to the people you love, but ultimately it's your life. It's your life to live and you have to make it a point of saying, "I need to do this for myself."
Lantigua: All right, so sort of getting our freedom from my parents, getting them to trust our decisions, especially when we're grown ass people is one thing. But then Kayla introduced her mental health and her wellbeing into it and how her recovery, her wellness necessitated moving away, being away. What do you think that does to the dynamic when we introduce the mental health part of it?
Cusido: Each family is different, but that is very hard because in our cultures, and I also thought by the way that Kayla was very brave to discuss that and to get the treatment that she needed for herself. We are individuals like yes, we are part of families and it is great to have family, but we are also individuals and we have to make choices for ourselves. And I understand that for some Latino families, that is a very hard concept to grasp, but it is so important. And I think that ultimately, even if they might have not been accepting in the beginning or so it seems from what she mentioned, she did the best for what she needed to do for herself and she's going to live with that and she might have a better relationship with herself and have better mental health because of it. And ultimately that I think is what's most important.
Lantigua: So how does one prepare to have this conversation? From our side, what do I need to do to come into this conversation? And in most instances, a couple of times we'll have to talk about it, which was her case. How do I enter into that as prepared as I possibly can?
Cusido: I think if you're going at it digging your heels in and saying, "I'm doing this period, full stop, that's it," you're going to become more defensive and then the people on the receiving end are going to become more defensive as well. And so I think if you approach it from a point of view of, "I understand that you care about me and that you're saying and doing these things from a place of caring, but this is what I need to do for myself and I'm going to need for you to respect these choices." And unfortunately Juleyka sometimes you do have to cut off a relationship because sometimes people don't respect and they're still imposing their will. Some people will respect it and understand that you are an adult, but some people don't. And there are times for your own mental health that you have to cut those ties as well.
Lantigua: Oh yes, I am definitely a big proponent of that. And it's so difficult, but with time and distance you realize that was an unavoidable and unnecessary course of action. But going through that also necessitates you having support. So tell me about how we can build, how someone in Kayla's shoes where she's trying to prioritize how wellness and her mental health, how does she create support around her if her immediate family does not give her the support that she needs?
Cusido: I think one of the things she said is she's already getting treatment. So that's number one. Something that I would also stress is you may need more than one therapist. Therapies like dating the first one may not be the best person, but once you find somebody that you connect well with, they really are a godsend. So I think first step is having a good therapist and I think having a support system, whatever that support system looks like, whether it's a friend, a classmate, a partner, [inaudible 00:13:53], whatever it is most important, it doesn't matter what it looks like for somebody else, it's, "What do you need? What makes sense to you?"
Lantigua: Thank you, I appreciate that. And we hear that over and over again, which is that choose the people you want on your team. As adults, we get to do that, right? And many of us are really blessed that it can be our siblings or our parents or our [inaudible 00:14:20] or our godparents, but for many of us, it's not any of those folks. But there are still folks around us who we can create our chosen family with. So let's talk a little bit about the signs. Kayla's very self-aware. I'm so proud of her for that. She's also very proactive about getting what she needs. Let's go back a little bit and talk about what are the signs that you may need to take on specific actions to promote your mental wellbeing, to safeguard your mental wellbeing.
Cusido: I think it may sound silly because every time I used to hear it, I'm like, "Oh, this is so stupid," but it actually is a really good piece of advice, which is trust your gut because your gut knows. Your body sometimes knows. Just like when you're about to get a cold, you instinctively know when things don't feel right. You know what I mean? For me, I've had depression, I've been living with it since I was 13. When I'm about to have one of those downturns with my illness, it just presents as exhaustion. Just like sometimes just physical exhaustion where you just can't. And now I know enough to know everything is temporary, including feeling like this. But those are some of the telltale signs or also where you feel like you're feeling voiceless, like somebody is telling you something and you're more concerned with appeasing them than doing something that's true to yourself.
And we all know what that feels like for us, what feels authentic to us and what. We always know what the answers are within us. And sometimes we end up second guessing ourselves and Juleyka, one of the things that I know has helped me listen to my gut more so to speak, is meditating so that it clears out all the rest of the noise that's going on, but also journaling. Because as you're journaling, you're trying to understand, "Okay, what is the best decision here?" Our bodies already know the answers. We just have to tune in and listen a little bit more.
Lantigua: I love that. 100% right. 100% right.
Cusido: And if there's something else that I can say, and this is painful, but it's true, the more you heal from whatever you are going through, the more you will see differences in your group of people, your support system, because some people will remain unhealthy unfortunately, or certainly unhealthy for you. And then you have to make those choices, "Am I going to continue in this relationship that's bringing me nothing but grief or am I just going to move on and find other people who respect me and who love me for who I am?"
Lantigua: And that's the word for today, people. All right. Final question. What are some of resources that you would recommend for folks who maybe don't have any experience getting mental health help, who don't know where to turn? Maybe for somebody like me who might go, "How to tell if you're depressed Google?" What are some places that you think could offer some real guidance and support if I'm still a little bit shy about seeking help?
Cusido: So the first thing I would suggest is start with your health insurance because they could provide guidance on who is in network for example, or with your primary care doctor because they would know other people to refer you to. There's also organizations out there like the first one I can think of is NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, NAMI, and you can go on their website as well. And 988 is a really great number too. It's for people who are suicidal, but it's also for people who are in distress. And there are sometimes where if your therapist, if you have one and they're not available at that time and you're going through something that's really upsetting, sometimes even just calling a hotline just to help you in that very moment can help bring you down from that crisis.
Lantigua: Carmen, thank you so, so much for coming on.
Cusido: Thank you so much, Juleyka. Happy to talk to you.
Lantigua: All right, here's what Carmen taught us today.
Assume the best when discussing your mental healthcare decisions with loved ones. Assume that any resistance you encounter comes from a place of caring. This way you will avoid getting defensive and can respond with empathy instead.
Trust your gut. Pay attention to your body and your inner voice. Meditate, journal, or spend time alone to help quiet the noise around you and tune in to what you want and need.
And remember, know when to walk away. Some family relationships will remain unhealthy even as you heal. Recognize when these relationships no longer serve you and create a different support system for yourself.
Thank you for listening, and sharing us.
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] about Anything
is an original production of LWC Studios. Virginia Lora is the show's producer. Tren Lightburn mixed this episode. I'm the creator and host, Juleyka Lantigua. On Twitter and Instagram, we're @talktomamipapi. Bye everybody. Talk to you soon.