Irina talked to us about being the mediator between her Cuban and Russian parents, and her more Americanized younger brother. She returns to tell us how the advice from our expert helped her, and reflects on why moving across the country altered the family dynamics.
Irina is the host and creator of Pandemic Mama podcast. If you loved this episode, listen to Irina's original episode, She's Stuck in a Family Triangle.
We’d love to hear your stories of triumph and frustration so send us a detailed voice memo to virginia@lwcstudios.com. You might be on a future episode! Let’s connect on Twitter and Instagram at @TalkToMamiPapi and email us at hello@talktomamipapi.com. And follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Juleyka Lantigua:
Hi, everybody. In the last few episodes, we've been talking to our OGs, original guests, for the series that we called OG Check-Ins. And we invited some folks back because we want to know how's it been? How's your life going? Have things changed since the last time you came on the show. Today, I'm welcoming back OG Irina. Irina's episode aired on August 24th, 2020. Here's a clip.
Clip: So I do talk to my brother about how I'm frustrated sometimes about how I'm put in the middle between his and my parents' communication issues. He tends to excuse it. He'll say, "Well, yeah." I'll text him back. What often comes up for me at this point is that, I have my own life and I have a husband and a baby and pets and work. And when I'm stuck in the middle in this way, I have to communicate to both sides. And sometimes I get very frustrated and I just have to say, "You know what? Take me a out of this. I can't be in this conversation right now."
Lantigua: When Irina and I first spoke last year, she told me that she was pretty tired of being the cultural translator in her family. As the oldest daughter of a Cuban dad and a Russian mom, she often got pulled in to mediate between them and her more Americanized younger brother. So for this OG Check-in, I really wanted to find out if anything had changed since we spoke. If the dynamics in the family triangle had improved. Let's get into it.
Irina: Hi, my name is Irina Gonzalez. I'm a freelance writer, journalist, and host of the Pandemic Mama podcast. And last time I came on the show to talk about the frustrations I feel in being what I call the cultural translator between my brother, who at the time was almost 29 years old, and my immigrant parents.
Lantigua: Welcome back.
Irina: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Lantigua: So what's it been like through the pandemic and over this last year, in general, and then specifically with the issue of you having to play translator?
Irina: It's been really interesting. I think that some of the issues have faded away a little bit, especially after the episode played and I got to hear some of the advice. And some things have been really difficult. I think that one thing we really didn't get into last time is just the fact that I had my baby, my first, right at the start of the pandemic. He was born at the end of March when the world was shutting down and everyone was just trying to figure out what's happening. But yeah. I mean, it's been difficult. The first year of my son's life was very isolated. He didn't meet another child until he was 11 months old. And, he did interact with my parents. They were in our COVID bubble because they lived 10 minutes away.
And we occasionally saw my brother when we could, but it was very difficult to see him because he works in a restaurant. But it was hard. And I think that as we went on, the issues between communication with my parents and my brother actually weren't as dramatic, I guess, during the pandemic, just because everyone was so I think busy worrying about what was happening in the world. So in a weird way, it was a little bit easier in that sense. But we were all very stressed out. And that was really hard, I think, especially as a family that has some mental illness that my, to be honest, my dad pretty much ignores. My brother was diagnosed with depression and ADHD, I think at age 20. And I was diagnosed with anxiety just after turning 30. And the pandemic has been really hard for all of us as a group.
Lantigua: Yeah. I can only imagine. You said that you used or heard or listened to the advice that our expert gave about your show. Tell me about that.
Irina: Oh gosh. Listening to myself talk concisely about the situation I think was really interesting. And I think the biggest thing I really took away from the expert is, well, there was two really big things. I think the first one was just the framing of the triangle and that it's really all about my parents and me and that it really has nothing to do with my brother. It's really, he's living his life. He's communicating the way he communicates, and I'm the one really being pulled into this triangle by my parents. And I think that framing really helped me to be just a little bit more gentle with my interactions with him. He's not doing anything, he's just doing his life.
My parents are the ones really pushing this issue and reaching out to me and et cetera. And the other thing I found really, really interesting is what the expert said about the comfort that I might get, the benefit that I'm getting from my parents maybe paying this extra attention to me because they're reaching out to me about what's happening with my brother. And I thought that was a really interesting way to think about it. Because I do think that she's right that in all of these years, one of the reasons that I haven't set harder boundaries with them about this topic is because when they do reach out to me about this, they are paying attention to me. And I do feel, I have felt very much throughout my life that they pay some extra attention to my brother because he's the youngest and he's the baby. Maybe because he has all these issues. I've always been the good kid. So they don't worry about me. So them worrying about him, but talking to me about it does give me that benefit of having their attention, even though it's not about me. Ultimately, they're still talking about my brother. So my feeling of being ignored or him being favored doesn't ultimately go away.
Lantigua: Right. Because it's not about you. So I was really curious to see how having your child, AKA their grandchild, might shift that triangle. Because first of all, I know that when I became a mother, I had a lot less time for family drama. I was like, "I'm trying to keep this thing alive. So forget the rest of you with your drama." But also the attention that grandma started to pay was always mitigated by the presence of, or the existence of this grandchild. So did having your son in any way mitigate this triangle?
Irina: It did. It's actually, something that I was thinking about. There has been really just a lot more conversations with my parents that revolve around my son. And so that's been really exciting and fun to see because I think they have loosened up a little bit and it's not that they're still not worried about my brother. I know it's come up a few times here and there. But for the most part, they're not calling me and freaking out because if they're calling me, it's usually to FaceTime or something like that, or to ask about my son. So that's definitely been, I think, an improvement. But to be honest, I think the biggest improvement I've seen in our relationship is that my husband and I decided to move away. We had always planned to move away because we never, neither of us really felt at home. We had great friends and, obviously, having family nearby has some benefits, but ultimately we just didn't want to live in Florida. And I think that the pandemic really, really clarified that. We were like, "What are we waiting for?" We don't like it here. We never have. This pandemic is really just making things more difficult to live in this state. And so, yeah, long story short we're in Colorado now.
Lantigua: That's amazing. I mean distance definitely has a curative effect. What's happened with you and your brother's relationship? Have you been able to separate now being the mediator between your parents and him and just now having just a straight up relationship with him?
Irina: Yeah, for the most part. I think the distance, like you said, it just, it makes everything easier. And to be honest, I remember having a much better relationship with my parents when I lived in New York, just because there isn't that daily check-in and all of that. And my relationship with my brother I think has really just gone back to a sibling relationship. I think that when I am present physically, when I'm physically near them, I get pulled into that triangle a lot more. And I am forced into the role of mothering him, which I realize now I just don't think is appropriate. It's something that I have thought about I think as really in the past year or so since I've become a mom. I remember, because I was five years older, I remember, and I was the oldest grandchild in my family and all of that. I just, and the girl, I just remember being pulled into mothering my brother, babysitting for him. I gave him the sex talk and just all those-
Lantigua: Same. Oh my God.
Irina: Yeah. When he was seven, all that. And at my mom's asking, which is funny, because she gave me the sex talk. So I don't know what the big deal was. But yeah, there was just a lot of moments where I'm pulled into mothering him. And even though I am a nurturing, caring person, looking back, I just think what is our culture? And I do think this is a cultural thing for a lot of Latinx people, but our culture really pushes girls to be in these domestic mothering, feminine roles very early on. And I just don't know if that's appropriate. I don't think it is.
Lantigua: It's not, let's just say it. It is not appropriate.
Irina: Right, exactly. Me cooking for him or doing chores, just that kind of thing. My grandmother, my abuela, she even says, "You're his second mom." I've been called many times since maybe a teen or even earlier, my brother's second mom. And looking back, I'm just, that is not cool. That is not a good role to put any girl into. And I do think that we are pushed by our culture to do that. And probably why I have ended up in this triangle where my parents are reaching out to me as the quote unquote second mom to mediate. But I think in a positive way, one, having distance and two, being an actual mom now really has, for me at least, solidified what my role and my boundaries are with them and with my brother and in this entire relationship.
Lantigua: So my last question is how has being intentional about how you communicate with your parents and also being intentional about redefining those communication boundaries? How has that helped you in other areas and in other relationships?
Irina: I think that communication with my parents has gotten better because I've just gotten better at setting boundaries and knowing when to say, "I can't have this conversation right now." I think that's really important because I am very quick tempered. And so sometimes I'm quick to jump into yelling and screaming and my dad and I will just go round and round. And that'll come up with my husband. I'll be quick, like every marriage, you'll both start screaming and then you're like, "What are we screaming about?" But I think it's also really helped with boundaries at work and just knowing when I should reply and when I shouldn't. I think setting boundaries and knowing that my time is valuable and sometimes my time needs to be devoted to not worrying about this thing and not dealing with it right now.
I think that it has always been very hard for me not to be quick to reply to a boss, or my husband, or a friend even. And so I think being more intentional with my parents is actually helping me be more intentional with other relationships. And that's hard, it's been really hard for me. But I think just setting boundaries and reminding myself that I don't have to be angry and respond from a place of anger. I can just give it time and think about what I really want to get out of this situation and go from there.
Lantigua: Beautiful. Thank you so much for coming back.
Irina: Yeah, this was great.
Lantigua: Irina's original episode is called “She's Stuck in a Family Triangle.” You can find it in our feed or on our website, and we've also linked to it in the episode notes.
Lantigua: Thank you so much for listening and for sharing us. How to Talk to Mami and Papi About Anything is an original production of LWC Studios. Virginia Lora is the show's producer. Kojin Tashiro is our mixer. [inaudible 00:14:23] is our social media editor. I'm the creator, Juleyka Lantigua. On Twitter and Instagram, we're @talktomamipapi. Please follow us and read us on Apple podcasts, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast. Bye everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua, Juleyka, host. “OG Check-in: OG Check-in: She Broke Free from a Toxic Family Triangle.”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything,
LWC Studios., December 6, 2021. TalkToMamiPapi.com.