Last year, TK told us how hard it was to get her parents to understand her passion for her work, and accept her career change from nursing to audio. In this episode, she shares how her family now understands, supports and celebrates her work and one another.
If you loved this episode, listen to TK's original episode, She Loves Her Work, Her Parents Don't Get It.
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Juleyka Lantigua-Williams:
Hi, everybody. As you know, for the past couple of episodes I’ve been checking in with some of our OGs, original guests, and you know, been curious. What have they been up to? How’s the pandemic been? Have they made any progress on some of the issues that we talked about? Today, I’m with TK. Her episode originally aired on August 2nd, and back then we talked about how changing careers from nursing to audio production was a big surprise for her Haitian-American family, and basically went against their expectations that she’d follow a medical track like they did.
TK: I guess at that point, my parents… You know, they thought they steered me correctly. They thought that they steered me in the right direction of my career and my job, but I actually took certain jobs because I wanted to have time to do radio and other media things. You know, I would host shows, like host events, public speaking, and stuff like that, and I would get so much energy and fuel from that that it would make me depressed to go back to regular work, nursing work on Monday. And they… I don’t know if anybody just didn’t notice that I wasn’t happy, that I was basically not very healthy, because when you’re not happy, you get depressed, and when you get depressed, your body is also affected by that. It was hard. It was hard.
Lantigua-Williams:
When we spoke last summer, TK said that her family was slowly but surely coming around and beginning to understand why it is that she’s so passionate about her new work in audio, and that they were even beginning to be a little supportive, so I wanted to check in with her and see where things stood with her and her relatives. Let’s get into it.
Hey, TK!
TK: Hey, how are you?
Lantigua-Williams:
I’m so happy you’re back!
TK: I’m so happy to be back. I got updates.
Lantigua-Williams:
I know! I know! But first, I want to know. Hearing yourself back from so many months ago, what are you feeling, like how did you react?
TK: Oh, man. It just reminded me of how long that process was, like the people, the people would never know how long that process was, and I just had to think about it. I was like, “Well, that was like over a 10 year period.” Like unlearning, that’s getting to know each other again, my family and I, my parents and I, and going through other things concurrently, trying to find my way and trying to make them understand me, and I was just like, “Whoa. We’ve all come a long way.” That’s what I got hearing myself.
Lantigua-Williams:
All right, so these updates. Gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme! What are the updates?
TK: Oh, my gosh. It’s crazy. Okay, okay. I’ve been doing some hosting for NPR’s Life Kit podcast. They have a rotating cadre of hosts, so I’ve done three so far, and that’s fun, and that has gotten me a little bit extra visibility, and a credibility that my parents can understand. And for that, it’s great. It’s worth everything, you know?
Lantigua-Williams:
Yes.
TK: I don’t even think about anything else, honestly. It’s like hey, I could slap this in their text message and they’re like, “Oh, I get it.”
Lantigua-Williams:
NPR! NPR!
TK: Yeah. The parents love evidence. They love receipts. And-
Lantigua-Williams:
So, do you think that they get what you do now? Like fundamentally, do they get what you do?
TK: I think they get it better. I explained to my dad. I think we had a good conversation. I told him about my new day job. I got a new day job. I’m an executive producer now. I took the step up from producer to executive producer and I’m just learning how to be… You know, be a person with accounts, you know how they used to call accounts in the old TV shows, you know? And I told my dad, I actually had to… I didn’t have to do anything, but I was curious. I was like, “Hey, when you used to go to work, before you were retired, were you happy there?” Because there’s a work ethic that I recognize in myself that I remember from my childhood, like my dad used to be so ready, like yo, 6:00 AM, out the door, going to work. Right?
And he was like, “Depends on the job you’re asking about, but the one I was most happy at, yes.” Like, you know, when he was a guidance counselor, guidance counseling high schoolers, he was like, “I was ready. I wanted to get these kids into college, into vocational school, and I just couldn’t wait to be there.” And then when the New York City Department of Education started to do shenanigans, he was like, “I was unhappy. I was taken away from high schoolers. I’m not an elementary guy, but I still knew that I had to do the job and I loved to do the job.” And it was something that I could recognize and in that conversation I was able to explain what I do as an executive producer, and he asked me more questions, and it was like me asking him a question about his life opened the door to him asking me questions about my life now.
Lantigua-Williams:
Oh, my God.
TK: Which was amazing.
Lantigua-Williams:
That sounds amazing.
TK: Yeah, I was like-
Lantigua-Williams:
I bet you nobody had ever asked him that.
TK: Yeah, and he even said that at the end. He was like, “Thanks for asking me that. I never… I hadn’t actually thought about those things in a long time.” And I was like, “Oh, man. All right.”
Lantigua-Williams:
No, no. Yeah, that’s deep. That’s deep. Because now he sees your curiosity, but he also sees the maturity in you trying to actually come outside of the role of daughter to engage with him like professional to professional, you know?
TK: Yeah. Definitely.
Lantigua-Williams:
Tell me about the things that you set out to achieve over the last year that you were able to achieve despite the world coming to an end.
TK: Oh, despite the world coming to an end. Yes. Well, some of it is like personal that crosses into professional, and because I was able to do those things, I think that I was… I’m better able to be a professional in our field right now, but getting healthy… Getting healthier, excuse me. I don’t know if I’m healthy, child. I need to go to the doctor. But yeah, getting healthier. Actually was faced with… I just learned during the pandemic that I had fibroids and it was causing me so much pain in the midst of the pandemics, and the uprising, so it was like stress compounding from all the things happening in the world, and then to me, and I was just like in pain, doing all the work that people were seeing on the internet. It was just the most painful thing in my life, so I took up running, and by running I mean like the lightest jogging you ever seen. I’m almost a mall walker at this point, but I do it, you know?
I wasn’t doing it before, and doing it now, so it makes a difference, and I went and went to the doctor and I got some treatment, and I was like, “Oh. Okay, wait, so life can be better if I just follow these things about food and exercise? Oh, that wasn’t a lie?” When you a kid, you think they lying, like food and exercise? Diet? What? No, no. It’s true.
Lantigua-Williams:
Here’s the real growth.
TK: It’s true. Diet and exercise is real, y’all. Opening that door, I think, and letting go of the pain, and allowing myself to feel good, and actually just focusing on myself, I think it made me have a… What’s the word? A better mind state to take conversations, right? People, like I was looking for jobs, and the way to do an interview is not to be in pain. The way to do an interview is not to be in the middle of an uprising, and to not have pandemic stress, and I was able to clear my mind and then take the calls that I was prepared to take, and I found myself making better decisions about what I wanted for the future and what I needed for the future. Do I want to be on a news show in the middle of a pandemic on election season? No. That’s not gonna be good for my stress levels and it’s not gonna be good for my fibroids.
So, what gig do I take? I take the faith-based show, even if I’m not super religious. I know I’m gonna hear some wisdom and inspiration even if I don’t like it, right? So, I start making decisions based on my health, and my body, and what I need, and it’s never… It hasn’t failed me yet. I mean, I’m new to it, but it hasn’t failed me yet.
Lantigua-Williams:
That’s so beautiful. You sound in your voice so much lighter. In this process of you getting to understand and to honor your needs, have you found that your family has been more understanding, more supportive, because now they’re really starting to get what you do?
TK: Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe we all went through a thing during the pandemic and… Because this year is the year for some reason everybody’s coming to a place of understanding. Everybody’s being more open. But they definitely… My parents definitely have been more engaging with my work, and sometimes also, I’m realizing that if you want something, you have to ask for it. The way I want stuff at work, I need to act like that with my family. I want them to listen to a piece, well, you know what? I don’t wait for them to find it on Facebook, because one of them isn’t on Facebook, and one of them isn’t on Facebook enough, right?
So, I send it to them, and I’m like, “Hey, I did this last week. What do you think?” And then they hit me back, so I understand now. We need to stop expecting our people to know what we want. If you want it, just ask for it. I want validation from family. Well, then damn it, here’s this WhatsApp. That’s what’s really real. That’s what’s really real.
Lantigua-Williams:
Dude. The hardest part of getting what you want is knowing what to ask for. So, this is like dimensions of progress for most of us.
TK: Oh, yeah.
Lantigua-Williams:
Honestly.
TK: Yeah. Definitely.
Lantigua-Williams:
Yeah. I’m so proud of you.
TK: Thank you.
Lantigua-Williams:
I’m so proud of you. Honestly.
TK: I feel good. It feels good.
Lantigua-Williams:
Are there any parts of your work and your passions related to your work that you’re still a little bit hesitant to share with them? Or are you just feeling really confident in this newfound understanding that you get from them?
TK: I feel pretty confident, but there’s still a little piece of me that is the old me, right? Guarded and… I mean, I just don’t share every single thing. I’m just… I care less, I would say. You know, like I have lower expectations of interactivity with my work. Not just with my family, but with my friends. I think I’m more… I think I’m able to just let the work be now more than before, and maybe that speaks to just me having a greater satisfaction in my life, and in myself, and personally, and professionally, where I just don’t need a whole bunch of commentary, and if they see it, they see it. You know?
So, I welcome it, but I don’t need it as much as I used to.
Lantigua-Williams:
Sounds like you’re really beating imposter syndrome.
TK: Well, it’d be like 25 years in the making, so…
Lantigua-Williams:
No, I mean it’s a transformative, and I completely understand it, because I have gone through it multiple times, where you seek external validation because you still have all these doubts about what you’re doing, and it’s a really quick emotional high, but then you go back and it’s just you and your doubt. It’s really funny, because one of the things that I’ve started to say to myself in this new year is what people think of me is none of my business.
TK: Yes!
Lantigua-Williams:
I’ve said that to myself so many times when I feel that doubt kind of like creeping in. You know? And so, I feel you when you say that, when you’re like, “I’m good. I know what I did. I’m happy with what I did. I’m good.” Do you find that you’re now a little bit more understanding of the choices that your parents made, given that you’ve now really, truly been able to make the choices that are true to you?
TK: Yeah. For sure. I think about it. I think about how old I am. And I think about what would they do at my age. At my age, they had three kids and whatever… I don’t know. Maybe we're living in an apartment, or maybe we had gotten the first house. I don’t remember. But at my age, they were just trying. And then I remembered, I was like, “Whoa, my dad went back to college.” And I was like 12, and my mom also went back to college, and I was 17 or 16, and I was like, “Man, this is… These are extraordinary people.” Just thinking about how they juggled all that stuff and I just got a cat. Geez. They’re amazing. I get it.
Lantigua-Williams:
Oh my God. I’m so happy to hear you say that, because since you and I talked, one of the things that the experts that we bring on the show have said over and over and over is that it takes a while for first gens to look back at their parents in their full humanity. Because one, because of the myths that we make about the immigrant struggle and the sacrifices, but two, because they’ve been so focused on us forever, and so it’s really hard for us to just stop, and turn the lens, and look back at them, and really try to engage with how they’ve chosen to live their lives, and why. And so, it’s so beautiful to hear you say that you’ve found this understanding towards your parents, and not just understanding, but admiration.
TK: Yeah. Definitely.
Lantigua-Williams:
You know, about could I have done the same things they did? Like, I don’t even want to find out.
TK: You know what’s wild? As you say that, I think about it and the hindsight goes both ways, right? Because we first gens, we’re just trying to grow up straddling two spheres of life, right? And honestly, like the parents can’t see that until later either, because they are… This is their American experience for the first time, and this is my Haitian-American experience for the first time, so we both are growing, and now I see that they look back and they’re like, “Oh, that was silly. I should have let you go to the mall with your friends.” Right? Nobody’s kidnapping you in the ‘90s. That was an ‘80s thing, you know? But yeah, I get it. Yeah. We’re all looking back.
Lantigua-Williams:
Oh, that’s hilarious. I would have had more friends, okay? Okay, so one person that I haven’t asked you about is your brother, who last time we talked seemed to be playing a little bit of a go-between role. Is he still doing that? Is there no need for him to do that? Do you need any allies now that you and your parents have better communication about the things that are important to you with your career?
TK: I have two brothers and I think we swap. We swap positions as needed. And everybody has different jobs and interests and things that are just… Our parents did not expect us to do, right? Each of us haven’t had to be the go between for the other in a while, so that’s a great sign, and they’re actually interacting with my brother’s stuff, both of them, and more than me. Because I think I’m the person that broke the ice, and then the brothers came in, and it was like, “Oh, awesome. Great. I could do what I want because TK did… Look at TK. She actually jumped all the way out the window. She’s pretty crazy. Let’s…”
So, my brother, he wrote his own cocktail comic book, and my dad promotes it online.
Lantigua-Williams:
What?
TK: They wear his apparel to the park, and they take pictures of themselves walking in the park, like really bad selfies, but they’re great. You know? I don’t know. My other brother’s a little low key, but they help him too, or they’re like, “Oh, good for you, Ron. Whatever this thing is you’re doing…” We don’t… None of us understand what the fuck Ron does. But whatever it is you’re doing, Ron, just call us.
Lantigua-Williams:
Right.
TK: Nobody knows what Ron does, but he’s doing stuff.
Lantigua-Williams:
I love it. Because you know, in a way that is actually a very typical intergenerational dynamic, where once one sibling proves that doing something is safe, and rewarding, then it everybody is like, “Me too! I want… Yeah, I have ideas. I have…” So, I get that.
TK: And it’s like you almost want them to send you, like all your siblings, and all the cousins behind you, like, “Yo, I should be having thank you cards, and gift cards-“
Lantigua-Williams:
Yes! Where are the gifts?
TK: And baskets at my door.
Lantigua-Williams:
Yes. Yes.
TK: This is our lot in life. Somebody, I’m waiting for the Postmates gift card today. Keep this in so I could send this to my family and that they could see, and they could send me some gifts.
Lantigua-Williams:
That’s hilarious. All right, last question is what’s ahead for TK?
TK: What’s ahead for TK? Wow. That’s a loaded question.
Lantigua-Williams:
Listen. I don’t do small talk. You know by now.
TK: Yeah. I see you. I see you. Okay, what’s ahead for TK? I think that I’m easing into my position as executive producer and I’m also very lightly and very slowly starting my own production company, Philo’s Future Media. And now that I’m at my day job, I can utilize all the things that I’m learning at my day job and just like all the things I’ve seen in the industry but didn’t understand. I can apply that as very, very slow practice for my thing. So, I just needed a place to make art with my friends and understand the business behind the art with my friends. Because I’ve been making art for a while and I just never understood the business of it. Now, I’m learning the business of it and it can be more purposeful.
Lantigua-Williams:
Brava! I’m so excited to hear that. Oh, yes. Yes, TK.
TK: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Lantigua-Williams:
It’s the only way forward, baby. You have to own your stuff.
TK: That’s it.
Lantigua-Williams:
You have to claim that space. I love it. I love it.
TK: Exactly. Exactly.
Lantigua-Williams:
TK, thank you so much for coming back. You have made my whole week.
TK: My pleasure, Juleyka. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate this moment to expand on the story and kind of close it out, because… Whew!
Lantigua-Williams:
If you haven’t listened to TK’s original episode, She Loves Her Work, Her Parents Don’t Get it, you can find it on our feed and on our website.
How to Talk to [Mamí and Papí] About Anything is an original production of Lantigua Williams & Co. Virginia Lora produced this episode. Kojin Tashiro mixed it. Manuela Bedoya is our social media editor. Cedric Wilson is our lead producer. Jen Chien is our executive editor. I’m the show’s creator, Juleyka Lantigua-Williams. On Twitter and Instagram, we’re @TalktoMamiPapi. Please subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts. Bye, everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua-Williams, Juleyka, host. “OG Check-In: She Loves Her Work, and Now They Get It” How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything, Lantigua Williams & Co., March 1, 2021. TalkToMamiPapi.com.