Last year, Kristie spoke with us about the gendered expectations her dad had of her, despite her professional success. Here, she reflects on how becoming a wife, home-owner and mom-to-be is transforming their father-daughter relationship.
If you loved this episode, listen to Kristie's original episode She has a Ph.D, But Papí Still Wants Her to Serve Him.
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Juleyka Lantigua:
Hi everybody. For our final episode of this OG Series I'm talking with Kristie. Kristie first came on the show June 14th, 2021. She had just graduated from her PhD program and told us about a conversation she had with her dad during the celebration dinner. Here's the clip.
Clip: He said, "Okay. Well then you can order for me." I said, "No, dad, I don't want to do that," and he said, "Well, you have to." The conversation we were having was about this dinner, but I think it was also much larger that that. I said, "I don't think I do, and I really hope that you will still love me with me not having to serve you." He said, "You will always have to serve me. It is your job." I said, "It is literally not my job. I just got a PhD in neuroscience."
Lantigua: As I prepared to talk to Kristie I wanted to ask her about the dynamics between her and her dad. I was curious to know if anything had changed over the last year, especially given that she's no longer a student and some other major milestones that happened in her life. Let's get into it.
Kristie: My name is Kristie and I am from Houston, currently living in Austin.
Lantigua: Hi, Kristie. Welcome back.
Kristie: Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Lantigua: Tell the people why we wanted you to come back. Tell them what we talked about last time.
Kristie: Yeah. Last time we talked about briefly that I graduated with my PhD and we had spoken about the relationship that I had with my family, primarily my dad, regarding kind of our gender dynamics and how achieving this lifelong goal of both of ours was impacting our relationship.
Lantigua: So you were basically like, "No, papi, get your own food."
Kristie: In a more respectful and nicer way, yes.
Lantigua: Yeah. That's what I would have said if people... Okay, but, Kristie, what was it like listening to your episode?
Kristie: When I first listened to it when it was first aired it was very almost therapeutic. It's funny, because I had recently stopped going to therapy for like insurance reasons, and it kind of filled some of that little hole that I had. It was validating. Of course it was kind of cringey, listening to my own voice and then listening to the expert, and her opinions and her guidance was really, like I said, therapeutic, validating, and it just made me feel better about the whole experience.
Lantigua: So what resonated with you from what the expert said?
Kristie: I can't remember too clearly what she said. There was something like I can tell Kristie is really trying, like she's really trying to see the perspective and trying to understand the situation. It made me feel a little bit more like okay, this expert is saying she also kind of agrees with me, and she's appreciating that I'm trying to see both sides, because I was a little worried that it was going to come off like I didn't like my dad, I was mad at my dad, which is not the case at all.
Lantigua: No. A lot of people worry about that, because I think for many of us just taking ownership of telling your story from your own perspective is really a big step. So has anything changed?
Kristie: Yes. A lot has changed since I last spoke. I got married and-
Lantigua: Congratulations.
Kristie: Thank you. I got married, I got a house, and we're expecting a baby.
Lantigua: What?
Kristie: I know, it's very wild.
Lantigua: Okay, you don't have to cram all of adult things into one year. I know you're an over-achiever, I know you're an over-achiever, but, girl-
Kristie: Yeah. It's been a lot. It's been quite the wild ride, and actually it has really changed my relationship... Well, not changed, impacted me in my relationship with my dad as well.
Lantigua: Okay. So you have to tell us all of it. How so?
Kristie: With my dad, the wedding itself was really beautiful in the sense of like it was just at that point in both of our lives I think that we had been waiting for for so long. Like when he was walking me down the aisle it was very emotional and just very... It almost felt like another big, high achievement that I had made, which it was, I agree. But I didn't work as hard on this as I did to get my PhD. Or I did, in different ways of course. Yeah, it was a very beautiful moment for each of my parents, along with my husband.
Kristie: But ever since being married, it's funny I think that... Well, like I said, we had been going through all these life achievements, or life changes basically, and I think I remember telling you something, like I think my dad is really scared that I'm not going to need him anymore. That was kind of the sense I was getting.
Kristie: Oh, my gosh, but in the past couple months never have I needed him more. I call him... He really makes a joke that he's like the crisis hotline. Yeah.
Lantigua: Yes, dad, you are.
Kristie: Yeah. So me and my husband now... And he also just feels comfortable calling him for everything. I think dad also kind of has like a new relationship with my husband, where he's seeing him almost like as a son, which is very confusing. He knew him for a long time, but now I think he feels a little bit more paternal. He just like wants to teach us things and wants to make us feel better and regularly checks in on us.
Kristie: From buying a house and asking him different questions about mortgages and loans and what's this mean and that mean, and at one point I thought... I was told that I was having twins, and was another one where he like answered the phone, and he was like, "Crisis hotline," and I said, "I think I'm having twins. I need help."
Kristie: He was the first person I told, and he's been like the first person that we go to for anything. I have been surprised at how much I've needed him. I knew that I would need him, but I call him at least once a day with some new update, and like I said my husband as well, and he's even said, "You have the best dad," and I was like, "Yeah, I know."
Kristie: I've always loved my dad, and I said that, and he's always been the best. As far as how helpful he's been that's been great. I think he really likes being a dad and I think he's really excited to be a grandfather, and he's kind of realizing how he's going to fit that role in my adulthood.
Lantigua: So do you think the way that he perceives you and interacts with you has evolved since the last time that you and I talked because of all of these rapid changes in your own life?
Kristie: Yes. I do think that almost maybe I think he realized that I'm not as grown up as maybe he thought I was. I think he was like you have this PhD, you're not going to need me anymore. I need to let you know you're still my daughter, you still need help, even though I did not feel like that. I knew I had on idea what I was doing.
Kristie: But now I think he realizes “there's this whole new life stage that you are very unfamiliar with that you're going to need some coaching through.” So I think we've kind of gone back to this dad/daughter relationship, where like toward the end of my PhD I was doing things a little bit more independently because I was just comfortable because I had been doing the same thing for so many years.
Lantigua: Now you are about to become the matriarch in a family, right, and that's going to be another big shift. It's another important milestone, because you're going to have to decide who am I in this new role to my husband, to my child, and to my childhood nuclear family. Now you're going to have a different nuclear family. What's going through your mind as you prepare for this change?
Kristie: I'm really scared.
Lantigua: Yeah. You should be.
Kristie: Yes. I'm scared and overwhelmed. I'm taking it one day at a time. I know I'm going to have a lot of help. But actually as you say that, that reminded me of something. When we first closed on the house we had some friends over to make carne asada and apparently my mom usually does all this prep kind of things, and I guess I knew she did that kind of behind the scenes for me, and so my dad said, "Well, don't you need to cut the cilantro and onions?" I was like, "I don't want cilantro and onions. Do you?"
Kristie: So it was just kind of like, "Oh, your the woman of the house now. You have to get the plates out for everybody," and I was like, "Oh, okay." So I mean part of it is just hosting, as a host, but a lot of it, I was like, "I don't even want cilantro. You're the one who wants it."
Kristie: That kind of relationship I'm a little worried about. Or like, "Go take care of your kid," because definitely me and my husband are establishing different customs and really our relationship is very different than my parents. So I'm a little worried about that. But, like I said, I'm worried about a lot of things right now. I'm still taking it one step at a time.
Lantigua: This is actually such an important point, which is that both of you, your husband and you, will take from your family what works and apply that to your family, but you will also jettison a lot of things that simply didn't work for you in your original families as you create your new family. Has this come up at all between you and your dad, like in terms of how you want to set your family up as you expect your first child?
Kristie: In the sense of my dad emails me a lot of like college savings plans, things like that.
Lantigua: Funny.
Kristie: Yeah.
Lantigua: He is thinking far, far, far into the future.
Kristie: Yeah. And like I said, I think he's doing his job as a grandfather and he's excited for it. But I actually think that what you're referring to in how I'm going to be the matriarch is actually going to be more of an issue between my mom and I of wanting to do things differently. I actually kind of feel like my dad might kind of support me a little bit more. I hope so. I don't know. We'll see. But I've kind of noticed just like this pregnancy and things like that my mom and I are having a little bit more of differences in how we approach things.
Lantigua: Okay. Stop being vague. [inaudible 00:10:21]
Kristie: Yeah. Let's try to keep this to maybe only [inaudible 00:10:23]. I think my mom has this idea that all women are this way, or I know why women are this way. So she'll say like... You know, I had a pretty tough first trimester and I was throwing up a lot. My husband has been so great and so helpful, and she'll say things like, "Well, I never had anyone helping me," almost like she's proud of it, and I want to be like I'm sorry, that sucks. I love that I have somebody to help me.
Kristie: Or like, "Nobody was telling me what to do. I just figured it out." It's like that's great, I have Google now. I'm really happy with that. I ask my doctors a lot of questions and I have the knowledge to be able to do that.
Kristie: So just weird things like that that I've noticed, I almost feels like a competition between her and I, which I don't want at all. We're totally differently people and doing something at two totally different times, in two totally different circumstances.
Lantigua: Okay, so I'm going to give you some completely unsolicited advice about how to shut that down, because with my first child... So I'm the oldest daughter. I had the first grandchild in my family, so a lot of what you're saying is exactly what I went through.
Lantigua: After trying to be kind of like well I'm just going to do things different, you and I are different people, right, I realized two things. One, my mom wanted me to recognize her sacrifices. When she was saying that it was not to say I'm stronger, I'm better, I did it with less support. It was simply to hear you say, "Yeah, mom, I can't believe that you were able to do all of that by yourself."
Lantigua: As soon as I started giving her that feedback the entire situation changed and the way that she approached talking to me about it completely changed. "Wow, that sounds really bad. I'm so sorry, but thank God that you were so strong." Then when I responded like that there was no followup from her, right?
Kristie: Yeah.
Lantigua: So that was one. Then the other thing is that you have to remind them that your husband is also from a different generation and he is not only expected to, but he expects to be much more involved, because they will never broach any of this with him.
Kristie: Right. Of course not.
Lantigua: Yeah. Yeah. So that was something that I had to start doing. I had to be like... Because I would constantly be asked, "Where are your kids," and I would be like, "With their dad."
Kristie: Yeah. He never gets asked that.
Lantigua: No. Of course not. Then the older aunties would be like, "Wait, he knows how to take care of them," and I was like, "I would really hope so, because at this point if he doesn't know how to take care of them what are we doing?" Anyways, your body knows what to do. Your mind knows what to do. You'll be wonderful.
Kristie: Yeah. Thank you. That was good.
Lantigua: Kristie, what a joy to have you back. Thank you so much.
Kristie: Thank you. It was fun.
Lantigua: Kristie's first episode is called She Has a PhD But Papi Still Wants Her to Serve Him. You can find it in our feed and on our website, and we've also linked it in our episode notes.
Lantigua: Thank you for listening and thank you for sharing us. How to talk to [Mamí & Papí] about Anything is an original production of LWC studios. Virginia Lora is the show's producer, Kojin Tashiro is our mixer. Manuela Bedoya is our marketing lead. I'm the creator Juleyka Lantigua. On Twitter and Instagram, we're @talktomamipapi. Bye, everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua, Juleyka, host. “OG Check-in: OG Check-in: She Still Needs Papí, But Has to Guide Him to Help.”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] about Anything,
LWC Studios., August 15, 2022. TalkToMamiPapi.com.