Brenda wants to talk to her Mexican dad about his history with alcohol abuse and the violence it caused, but he's usually closed off about it. And Katheryn Perez, a therapist who works with first-gen and BIPOC clients, offers strategies for broaching the subject with empathy and care—for everyone involved, including ourselves.
Featured Expert:
Katheryn Perez is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice. Her work is largely guided by her own life experiences as an immigrant woman of color who was raised in South Central LA. Her background helps her understand the complex issues that often affect people of color — including the extent to which family violence, housing instability, lack of resources, discrimination, immigration status and intergenerational trauma — and how they can prevent clients from accomplishing goals and living the best life possible. Katheryn has a client-centered approach that is trauma-informed with a social justice lens.Learn more about her work here.
Katheryn recommends Al-Anon for family members, partners, and friends worried about a loved one struggling with a drinking problem; the National Domestic Violence Hotline for anyone seeking support anywhere in the U.S, and Peace Over Violence for anyone based in California; and this great resource for finding support in your local state/county.
If you liked this show listen to When Mamí Has a Drinking Problem and When Mamí & Papí Fight.
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Juleyka Lantigua:
Hi everybody. Today we welcome Brenda. Brenda's parents, especially her dad, used to drink a lot when she was growing up. He would often get violent towards her mom. Though her dad doesn't drink anymore the impact of this experience has stayed with Brenda and as an adult, she's looking for answers from her family to help her heal. Let's get into it.
Brenda: My name is Brenda and I am a current student at the University of California, Riverside. I am in my senior year. I identify as first generation. I am also undocumented. What I call Mom and Dad in Spanish, Ma and Ba, in English, just Mom and Dad. I use both. When I realized that my dad was having a difficult time being able to control the amount of alcohol he would consume, which now I would classify as alcohol abuse or misuse, I don't know, maybe I was like 10 years old. But I remember because of the things he would do when he was under the influence. He would be very violent, not necessarily towards me or my siblings, but more so towards my mom. I guess, growing up, I associated alcohol with violence. It still shows up in different ways in my life. When I am with family, especially if my dad is present, I have a very difficult time being okay with alcohol consumption. Even if the person wasn't related to me I just have a very difficult time being able to manage that and be in that space.
My dad doesn't drink anymore, that's the thing. He's stopped drinking for a while. He actually wasn't the only one drinking. It was also my mom as well. I honestly had gotten to a point in high school where I was done. I was ready to leave because I didn't want to live in that environment anymore. And I couldn't understand for the life of me why it was that they were doing that. Going through community college was hard and there was a lot of times where I didn't feel more like the moral support and a lot of the times it was because they were hungover or they wouldn't show up to award ceremonies or they would promise me things and they wouldn't meet them. Now it's a lot better. He doesn't feel the need to do it, but it did take a long time.
Brenda: I don't drink myself. I, right now I am in a committed relationship and for me a deal breaker would be for my significant other to drink. He hasn't done anything in particular for me to feel this way, but because I did grow up with it, I don't want it to be present in my relationships. Recently. I have tried to have conversations with my dad and mom about the situation. It hasn't been such a popular topic asking my dad what was the reason behind you drinking and feeling like you had to get violent? And just put yourself in that danger really because he is undocumented. And my fear was always, I don't want my dad to get deported.
And so I'm going to do everything in my capacity to make sure that he doesn't step out of the door, make sure that he doesn't drive under the influence and hurt other people. It was difficult because in not letting him go, I was keeping him right in the household and he was doing the damage there. He doesn't really say much other than he doesn't understand why he used to consume alcohol in that extreme or abuse of it. All he knows is that he comes from a lineage of family members from his dad's side who have abused of alcohol and unfortunately have died from cirrhosis.
I think it goes beyond that. He didn't have perhaps the best coping mechanisms. I guess his best way of maybe releasing the stress, of maybe releasing the grief that he carried, maybe even just migrating, leaving his family behind, all of those things, all of those factors, what he'd resort to was alcohol. To this day I try to make sense of, okay, why did that occur? Because I'm trying to make sense of it for my own mental health, because I don't want to feel what I feel when I'm around alcohol. I have to put my guard up, almost anticipating something is going to go wrong. Maybe, like I said, I shared my two cents about maybe why my dad did it, but maybe it might be different for him. And I think that there just hasn't been the opportunity for him to sit down and really try to express or let me in and allow me to see, okay, this is why it happened.
If my mom and dad were in the line, aside from explaining to them why it is that I feel strongly about just alcohol in general, I would tell them that I forgive him. Yeah. That I forgive him.
Lantigua: Brenda's story made me think about the wide ranging impact of substance abuse in a family and how the effects can be felt long after recovery. Her story also made me wonder about whether there is ever a good time to bring up substance abuse in our families. As first gens, what can we do to help ourselves and help our loved ones process these experiences? To help us figure it out I did what I always do. I called in an expert.
Katheryn Perez:
So my name is Katheryn Perez and I am a licensed marriage and family therapist in California. I am the owner and founder of Perez Family Therapy, a virtual practice for people of color.
Lantigua: I'm going to ask the same question I always ask, which is, what did you hear when you listened to Brenda's story?
Perez: I heard a lot of pain from a daughter that has struggled from witnessing her family, her parents, mom, dad, using alcohol, and really a lot of pain in her voice and I think one of the things that we often don't realize is how substance use really affects the entire family unit from the youngest to the oldest family member and in many different ways.
Lantigua: Can you dig a little deeper on that? How does substance abuse, for example, affect the children of the adults who might be suffering from substance abuse?
Perez: So usually let me give you an example, I think giving an example is the best way, with substance use many parents can usually be very neglectful. They can be emotionally absent unfortunately because of the addiction. So parents can be quite absent from the lives of their kids, which usually leaves the kids to fend for themselves. And when they grow up to be adults, in their adult relationships, they tend to repeat some of this behavior. So they really struggle with communicating, whether it's communicating, whether it's advocating for themselves, whether it's having healthy relationships, having healthy communication skills, being able to set boundaries for themselves. Because a lot of the things that their parents were supposed to provide them with or were supposed to teach them, they were not able to provide that for them.
Lantigua: Okay. So I'm hearing two things that sound almost contradictory to me. So one is, you grow up missing essential things that are important for emotional growth, but then you also have to be resilient and provide other things for yourself because someone else is not doing that. How do we make sense of those two things that to me, seem like they're opposing?
Perez: So unfortunately that is one of the, I would say it is resiliency. That's one of the things, one of the factors that unfortunately a lot of young adults and even children have to deal with when you do have parents that are not emotionally present for you. You have to somehow figure that out on your own. And even though we do see resiliency as a strength and as something positive, and it can be, it's pretty much a survival mechanism, as children, if you don't have anyone else guiding you, any other adults guiding you and showing you other healthier coping skills, you do have to become resilient. You do have to sometimes even figure out how to kind of sooth yourself or do your own homework. Or if you have other siblings, you have to pretty much take care of your own self. So it does become very difficult, but also emotionally draining.
Lantigua: Listening to Brenda's really visceral reactions to being around people who are drinking, whether they're her relatives or not, made me think, could she have PTSD? Is family alcoholism something that could, in some cases cause PTSD?
Perez: Yes, absolutely. It definitely sounds like alcohol in general does something to her. I think one of the interesting things that she also mentioned is that even though her father has stopped drinking for quite some time now, it sounds like just being around alcohol or even possibly the smell or of alcohol or seeing alcohol, it sounds like it does something to her. And one of the things about trauma is that trauma stays in the body. So our body is able to remember things that sometimes we don't often remember ourselves. Also the fact that there was violence attached to alcohol. So not only was there drinking, but whenever there was drinking involved, there was always some type of violence. So yes, it makes sense that there is trauma involved in it. And she is having these very physical, strong reactions to it.
Lantigua: We get people on the show often who as adults try in their own healing, try to reach out to their parents, try to have meaningful conversations around things that are really hurtful and really painful to recall. And Brenda is one of those folks who's doing that. Now, do you think that is always recommendable? Like how does one determine whether that is an appropriate course to pursue as we are trying to heal ourselves?
Perez: Yeah. It sounds like Brenda is seeking answers from her parents, specifically father, in her own healing journey. And I think we all deserve some type of answers, especially when it comes to when we're in our own healing paths. Unfortunately I think it's important to keep in mind that our parents might not always be open to sharing or even giving us those answers. But I do think that having these very important conversations with our parents, it's a good idea. I think it's important to know and be mindful of when is a good moment. And I think that also sometimes our parents have never been asked these type of questions and they have never even been given the space to have these type of conversations.
Perez: Maybe no one has ever asked them, what was happening? What was going on? Or tell me about your story. Tell me about the things that you experienced when you first came to this country. What do you think was happening or what were you feeling or what was going through your mind when you were drinking? But also keeping in mind that there might be some shame around what was happening during that time. Or there might be a lot of pain that dad or mom might not be willing to share or might not be ready to share. But I do think that Brenda deserves to have some type of closure. It sounds like there's a lot of pain still. And her feelings are valid. Her desire to know answers, her desire to have this conversation with mom and dad are completely valid. But also again, keeping in mind that her parents might not be ready to have this conversation and knowing that even if they are not ready, she deserves to heal in different ways. And none of it was her fault. None of it is her fault and that she deserves to heal
Lantigua: For those of us who are currently living with or close to a relative who we think has a substance abuse problem, what are some ways that we can help support, even broach the subject of getting help or offering help with them? How do we begin?
Perez: So living with someone that is actively using or actively struggling with an addiction, is extremely difficult. It is very triggering. It's very traumatic. So first of all, I highly recommend being in therapy, being in a support group or receiving any type of support emotionally, because it is very difficult. Also knowing that the person that is actively struggling with this addiction might not be ready to change, might be resistant to any type of support or help. But if you are ready to have this conversation coming from a sense of care and support, how can I support you? How can I help you? I care for you. I'm worried about you. What can we do together to help you through this process? So really staying away from words that might feel shameful, that might make this person feel bad or feel embarrassed. Because the minute that we make this person feel embarrassed or make them experience any type of shame, that's the minute that all doors will immediately close.
Perez: No one wants to struggle with addiction. No one wakes up any day and just chooses to struggle with addiction. So keeping that in mind, that there's a reason why someone is struggling with addiction. So really coming from a place of care and a place of compassion and empathy, and knowing that bringing in resources, and knowing that even if you're coming from a place of empathy and care, this person might not be ready. And leaving those resources with them and letting them know that when you're ready, I'm here to support you.
Lantigua: So let's end on that note. Can you name a couple of resources that you can recommend to folks listening, where they can learn more or where they can share a link with their relative? What are some of those places?
Perez: So one of the best resources that I can provide and share is the SAMHSA national helpline, which stands for Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. And that number is 1-800-662-4357.
Lantigua: Katheryn, what a pleasure to have you on. Thank you. Please come back.
Perez: Thank you.
Lantigua: All right. Here's what we learned from Katheryn today. Watch your language; avoid words that might cause someone to feel ashamed, embarrassed, or humiliated; ask questions that show you are coming from a place of compassion, empathy, and care. Be patient and take care of you. Understand your loved ones may not be ready to talk about their experience or to accept your help. In the meantime, make sure you have the emotional support you need. And remember, let go of the guilt. When it comes to a loved one's addiction and the pain it causes you, whatever happened in the past, it wasn't your fault. You did not deserve what happened, but you do deserve to heal.
Lantigua: You can find a list of resources Katheryn recommended in our episode notes. Thank you for listening and thank you for sharing us. How to Talk to Mami & Papi About Anything is an original production of LWC Studios. Virginia Lora is the show's producer. Kojin Tashiro is our mixer. Manuela Bedoya is our marketing lead. I'm the creator, Juleyka Lantigua. On Twitter and Instagram we're at talk to Mami & Papi. Bye everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua, Juleyka, host. “Questions about Papí's Drinking Still Linger”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] about Anything,
LWC Studios., May 16, 2022. TalkToMamiPapi.com.