Ele's parents have always been really supportive. When she and her husband lost their home during the recession, her parents took them and their kids in. Ele was grateful, but at times overwhelmed by their eagerness to help. Then, Dr. Maritza Mikolich, a family therapist, shares strategies for talking to parents about how best to really help us.
Featured Expert:
Dr. Maritza Mikolich is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist with a doctoral degree in psychology. She comes from a traditional Mexican family, raised in the United States, and spoke Spanish as her first language. Her parents were born and raised in Michoacan, Mexico and moved to the U.S. for the American dream of giving their family better opportunities. It was that dream that highly motivated her to follow her passion by going to college and studying psychology. She was the first in her extended family to get a college education and obtained her bachelor's degree at the University of San Diego, her master's degree at Saint Thomas University in Florida and her doctoral degree at Alliant International University in San Diego. She has therapy experience working in different settings, including youth and parents in foster care, teenagers in group homes, children in schools who struggle with behavioral issues, individuals struggling with co-parenting issues, and crisis intervention with all age groups. In October 2020 during the pandemic, she started her private practice in hopes of giving back to the Hispanic community. She provides psychotherapy primarily to adults in English and Spanish virtually through telephone and video throughout the state of California. She provides individual, family and couples therapy virtually to people struggling with depression, anxiety, trauma, life stressors, and relational problems. Learn more about her work here.
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Juleyka Lantigua-Williams:
Hi, everybody. Today, I’m speaking with Ele. Ele comes from a supportive and loving Colombian family. Some years ago, her own family, her husband and kids, faced a difficult financial situation. Ele’s mom and dad stepped in to help and Ele was so grateful, but she also found herself overwhelmed by her well-meaning parents. Let’s get into it.
Eleana Valencia-Knight
My name is Eleana Valencia Knight. I go by Ele. We always called mamí and papí, mamí and papí, but recently realized that all my siblings spelled it just like you spell it on your podcast, but I’ve always spelled it poppy with P-O-P-P-Y and mommy, M-O-M-M-Y. I grew up in Westchester County in New York. I have five siblings. Well, I’m the fifth one. I was born here. I’m gen one. All the other ones were born in Cali, Colombia. I’ve been married for 26 years. I have three children, ages 22, 19, and 11.
We had some financial issues a few years back, especially after 2008, and we found ourselves pretty much losing just about everything. Home, boat, everything you can think of. We were very happy that my parents were able to help us out. I mean by living with them until we got resituated, I guess. And it was all great, but you know, you have five people and a dog moving into my parents’ house all over again, and they’re eighty-something years old. Luckily, their home is big enough to accommodate all of us and we were happy to be there with them, but you know how it is. You’re a grown ass woman, and you got your kids, and you’re doing it your way, and then mamí comes and wants to do it her way, and we butted heads a few times. Definitely.
My parents wanted to make us feel very comfortable in their home. They rearranged their furniture. They rearranged their bedroom. They rearranged all sorts of things to make us feel welcomed and loved at the same time. But at one point, my dad started doing a little too much. My mom at one point also decided that she wanted to buy us a bedroom set and we’re like, “Mom, we’re okay. We don’t need another bedroom set.” They want to make you feel good, you know what I mean?
And you could see the sad, puppy-eyed looks on her when I said no. One time, my dad, he wanted to get an extra washer and dryer, and he wanted to get another extra refrigerator and put all that on the back porch, and they have a ginormous back porch, and it was just getting out of control. I felt like we were making my mom’s house into Sanford and Son and that is not what we wanted. We didn’t want to disrupt their lives more than we already had. And I told my dad, I said, “Papí, no.” I said, “You don’t have to bring this washer and dryer out here. This is too much. We’re fine. We got a washer and dryer in the house. What’s the difference? I don’t understand.”
“Oh, there’s too many of you. It’s just me and mamí over here.” And finally, I just had to grab the clothes out of his hands, and out of the dryer, and say, “No! We don’t need this! It’s okay! We don’t need it!” And that’s when he said it. “Malagradecida.” I never thought that would come out of my dad’s mouth, but it did. That hurt me, because to me and my husband, we were trying to be invisible and not burden them. I responded by… My parents are very loving people and what I saw in his eyes, I saw anger, and I basically put my head down, I took a deep breath, and I said, “No, papí. No necesitamos esto It’s too much.”
They want to support you. They want to help you. They want to ease things for you at a time of difficulty. You know, papí fixes everything. Papí always does everything. But now I’m grown, and yes, I still love you, and I still want your help, and you know, all these kinds of things, but I got this. You know? And when I need your help again, I will tell you like I did last time.
We made it work. They realized it, that we were not really wanting for them to do all of this. I really feel that my dad, he understands that he overreached. Both of them overreached at one point or another. And I do think that in their own way, they understood. Oh, “Es que Eleana es la gringa, ella no quiere que nadie la ayude.” Yeah, so this is how they say, and this is what they call me, so…
I know I was born here, and a lot of my thinking is extremely independent than what they’re accustomed to, my parents, and my siblings, and how they deal with my mom and my dad, and they… Yes, mamí, sí, papí, and I do the same thing, but I’m a little more outspoken than they are, but I do it with as much respect as I can. I’m the baby of the family, so I’ve always been thought of as what you say doesn’t really matter, you know? And that’s always been hurtful.
If my dad was on the line, I would tell him how much I’ve appreciated everything that they’ve always done for us, and now that I’m a woman, grown woman, of 50 years, with three children, I hope that you can see that I’m going in the right direction, and that what I say is factual. I’m not five years old any longer. I think he would appreciate that, and he would say, “Si m’hija. Yo entiendo. Ya lo entiendo.”
Lantigua-Williams:
Ele reminded me of my own experience with my mom and how she’s always eager to help in ways that are really loving, but sometimes a little inconvenient. Like Ele, I have found it hard to express what I need for fear of hurting her feelings. To find a better way for Ele, for me, and probably for some of you, I did what I always do. I called in an expert.
Dr. Maritza Mikolich:
My name is Dr. Maritza Mikolich. I work in the state of California. So, I do work with individuals struggling with anxiety, depression, and just transitions in life. Also, trauma, so I do EMDR. I love working with multicultural families and individuals, and the Latinx community, as well.
Lantigua-Williams:
You listened to Ele’s story. What did you hear as you listened?
Mikolich: I did. Yeah. I love hearing stories and families, right? Family dynamics is just so, so interesting, how families work and transition. I know in the Latinx community that parents always are parents, right? No matter what. And as they transition even in adulthood, I think they try to transition into some of the same roles they played. However, as I heard her story, I noticed she’s very independent, and I’m sure her parents have a lot to do with that, raising a strong woman in the U.S.
What was very interesting to me is that she was able to stick to her no. No is such a powerful world, you know? That’s probably our first word in any language. We learn to say no. We learn to set limits, right? But then as soon as you say no to mom and dad, sometimes that becomes an issue. It becomes a conflict.
Lantigua-Williams:
So, why does it become an issue?
Mikolich: I think for parents, it has to do a lot with the internal stuff, right? It feels so good to give.
Lantigua-Williams:
Yeah. It seemed that in Ele’s story, there was an abundance of support and help, but on her side, she wanted to need less, and depend less on them, but the two things were not being communicated effectively by either side. So, how can someone in a similar position to Ele say in kind, gentle, loving ways, “We don’t need you to do all of these extra things. We are absolutely fine.” How do we do that in smaller steps so that we avoid the hurtful confrontation?
Mikolich: You know, something that really stood out to me is like she really wanted to be invisible. And I was thinking, “That’s quite impossible. There’s five.” Right? It’s a transition for everyone. Let’s come to acceptance in a way here, too. And I was actually wondering… This is the other thing that… The second time I listened to this, though. I was actually wondering if the dad was kind of passively telling her that we need another one here, because it’s just the two of us. I can’t do my laundry whenever I want to anymore. That’s what I was thinking. I was like, “Well, I think she maybe made an assumption that it was for her, but was it really for her?”
Lantigua-Williams:
I didn’t think about that.
Mikolich: Yeah. I was thinking gender roles, too. Like male-female, right? And in the Latino community, males tend to not really communicate effectively. They try to problem solve. So, I was thinking is it possible that he was trying to do that, like just solve the problem because it was disrupting his home?
Lantigua-Williams:
Right. So, instead of expressing his need directly, to have access to the washer and dryer when he needed it, he said, “Well, let me create an alternative for you,” and by doing that for you, then I get what I need, which is access to my own washer and dryer. I mean, that’s a really convoluted way to go about getting what you want. Do you see that a lot?
Mikolich: Yeah. I mean, that’s a passive way, because remember, in the Latino community, you try to avoid conflict. So, I was thinking this is possible that he was trying to make it convenient for everyone. It wasn’t just for him, though. He’s thinking of everyone. The collective mind.
Lantigua-Williams:
I actually really appreciate this point of view on it, because now I’m thinking back at times when my mother has actually employed this tactic, and instead of saying, “Here’s what I need,” she goes around the problem to create a solution that I might be finding cumbersome or inconvenient, but that is actually getting her what she needs. So, how do we catch that? How does the first gen even begin to see the signs of when a parent might be trying to solve a problem that impacts them by creating something that they think is helpful to you?
Mikolich: It takes a lot of awareness. The first step would just be to ask questions, right? So, maybe just saying, “Hey, why do you think it’s necessary to buy another refrigerator or another washer and another dryer? We don’t really need another one but tell me more.” I would say going with curiosity, asking a question to see what information you get from that person, because you never really know the intention behind it unless you ask.
Lantigua-Williams:
What if they’re reticent to actually tell you that this is about meeting one of my needs? How can you speak in a way that doesn’t reject their solution but doesn’t impose what you believe is happening here, right? Because that’s the last thing our parents want us to do, to tell them what is actually happening here.
Mikolich: Yeah. That’s true. That’s true. I think coming from a respectful place is important. I think respect is a big thing in the culture. Try not to reject what they’re saying, but come from an understanding space, like I understand. I hear you saying this. I hear you saying that. What can we do? Because I’m feeling like it’s too much and I don’t feel good about this. I don’t like that you have to go out and buy this extra thing. Right? Maybe compromising and coming up with alternative solutions would be good.
Lantigua-Williams:
I also wanted to ask about navigating the needs of other people in your family, right? Because she’s got her husband in there, she’s got her children in there, and she feels like she’s doing the emotional management for the entire situation for everyone, which is a very familiar role for Latina women and especially daughters. How can we catch ourselves when we are taking on so much of that emotional management in these types of situations?
Mikolich: Yeah. I think she did a great job asking for help and that’s the thing. Ask for help when you need it. Seems like she is very assertive when she needs to be. And so, I don’t think she’s afraid of asking for help. And I don’t think she’s afraid of receiving help. I just think she knows she has limits and that includes emotional limits, as well, like if you need a break from everyone, being able to count on your support system and say, “You know what? Today I need a break. I’m gonna take a mommy day. I’m gonna go out and just take care of myself. Is it possible that you guys can manage the household needs and things that need to get done here?”
Lantigua-Williams:
Okay, so just coming out and asking for what you need.
Mikolich: Yeah. It’s being honest, being direct. Not kind of going around the issues. Not pretending. It is a tall order. People come to me when there’s something going on and they don’t know how to be direct. They don’t know how to say no. They feel guilt. They feel bad.
Lantigua-Williams:
Yep.
Mikolich: Because of either the perception or because of the push back of the other family members. It’s like, “Who do you think you are?” Right? Why are you changing? Why are you different?
Lantigua-Williams:
Yeah. Yep. So, I was really curious after… Sort of like at the end of our conversation, because she still has such raw feelings about being called ungrateful. Many, many years later. How do those of us who do sometimes let things go when they’re happening, but then keep that with us, we carry that with us, how can we go back and have meaningful, helpful conversations with our parents for the sake of letting it go?
Mikolich: You know, that word really… That statement really stood out to me, too. Malagradecida. And it’s the way she said it, like her tone. And so, I could just picture that happening, like the moment in a relationship, a turning point, and I think it’s really important to know that what somebody else says about you doesn’t mean it’s true.
Lantigua-Williams:
Whoa! Even your dad?
Mikolich: Well, clearly her dad was angry that she said no to him, and this may have been the first time. One of the biggest first times ever, right? So, he’s upset that he can’t give his daughter something, and in that culture, the woman is expected to be more passive. You say yes.
Lantigua-Williams:
Yep. And thank you.
Mikolich: And thank you. And so, malagradecida. What somebody else says of you doesn’t make it true, and for closure to happen, you don’t always have to directly go and confront and talk to the person. You can resolve it internally just by changing your perception. How you think about it now.
Lantigua-Williams:
Say more.
Mikolich: Do you really think your dad meant that? Do you really think he thinks that about you in general? Or is that just a moment that he just got upset and taking it personal? We all tend to take things personal. Because it hurts.
Lantigua-Williams:
Wow. Yeah. I mean, this is… So, this is one of those moments in the show when I’m talking to someone and I could clearly see that there’s a clash between how Latinos are socialized. Traditionally, we are absolutely socialized to revere our elders, to revere the men in our families, to respect authority, and we are in a constant battle to assert ourselves against the social norms that tell us that when compared to an elder, when compared to a man, when compared to an authority figure, we are less than. And to come to a moment where you have to be like, “No. This is about what I need and about what I want, and so I am going to hold firm on this.” That just doesn’t feel like it’s about the washer and dryer anymore.
Mikolich: Exactly. It’s about so many other norms that she’s breaking. And that’s the thing. We all go through life transitions and we change all the time. Even her parents. She might not see it as clearly, but they had to adapt, too. I think for Latino parents, you know, it’s really hard for them to see their grown children venture off and become independent, and they forget about who they are without children, and they don’t know what to do when they’re not taking care of others, so they have to kind of rediscover who they are without kids.
Lantigua-Williams:
Yeah. Absolutely. Dr. Maritza, thank you so much for coming on the show. It has been wonderful to talk to you.
Mikolich: Thank you so much.
Lantigua-Williams:
All right, let’s recap what we learned from Maritza. Keep it respectful. Instead of dismissing an unwelcome suggestion, offer alternatives and approach the whole conversation with the goal of reaching an understanding, not just getting them to back off. Consider their side. Don’t assume you know what overly helpful parents want to achieve when they offer too much of anything. You have to ask. And maybe you have to ask again, as they may be trying to problem solve for everybody, including themselves. And remember, let it go. You can choose to let the actual conflict, the guilt, the resentment, the lingering hurt, all of it, you can let it go. And you can choose that all on your own without ever confronting your relatives. Just let it go.
Thank you for listening and sharing us. How to Talk to [Mamí and Papí] About Anything is an original production of Lantigua Williams & Co. Virginia Lora is the show’s producer. Kojin Tashiro is our mixer. Manuela Bedoya is our social media editor. Cedric Wilson is our lead producer. Jen Chien is our executive editor. I’m the creator, Juleyka Lantigua-Williams. On Twitter and Instagram, we’re @TalktoMamiPapi. Please follow us and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts. Bye, everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua-Williams, Juleyka, host. “When Mamí And Papí Help Too Much.”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything,
Lantigua Williams & Co., April 5, 2021. TalkToMamiPapi.com.