On this special series, first gens speak directly with an expert about how to navigate challenges in their love lives. Juleyka volunteered to go first and opens up about dating after divorce in a "discovery conversation" with dating and relationship coach Varsha Mathur, who shares her insight on why we should question what we want when re-entering the dating world.
Unlike a traditional coaching session, this conversation was not conducted in a confidential setting, and all participants were made aware of this when recording this episode.
Varsha Mathur is a dating and relationship coach and mediator based in Charlotte, NC. Learn more about her work with singles and couples here and set up a discovery call with her here. If you loved this episode, be sure to listen to Arranged Marriage, No Thanks Mom and Dating While Undocumented
We’d love to hear your stories of triumph and frustration so send us a detailed voice memo to virginia@lwcstudios.com. You might be on a future episode! Let’s connect on Twitter and Instagram at @TalkToMamiPapi and email us at hello@talktomamipapi.com. And follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Juleyka Lantigua:
Hi everybody, today we're doing something a little bit different. Usually, on the show, we welcome first gens who are struggling to speak with their parents about subjects that are considered taboo in our families. And there's one topic that comes up over and over again, but that our guest are not necessarily ready to talk to mami and papi about. That's love and romantic relationships. Still, it would be helpful to speak to someone sometimes about our dating lives. So we were inspired. Over the next few episodes, you'll hear first gens speaking directly with a very special expert. A relationship expert who will offer feedback and share her insights on how to navigate romantic relationships. She calls these discovery conversations. And to the absolute shock of the entire How to Talk to [Mami & Papi] team. I volunteered to go first. Let's get into it.
Varsha Mathur: Hi, I'm Varsha, I'm a dating and relationship coach and I help people find love whether they're single, divorced, married and I look forward to having us talk today.
Lantigua: That makes one of us. No, I'm actually really excited about this because this is step one in my commitment to get back out there.
Mathur: Totally. And I think that you are very brave for doing this.
Lantigua: Listen, I am committed. What are we going to do if we can't get past some of these difficult conversations? Can you explain the concept of the “discovery conversation” that you have with your clients and give me some sense of what is about to happen?
Mathur: Yeah, absolutely. So this is about really looking at how to transform the conversation around your relationship to dating. And so what I'm going to do is ask you some questions, but as I ask the questions, the idea is to get an awareness around what the challenges and stops are, what's actually standing in your way. And then the coaching comes in after that, which is how do we actually shift those things from awareness of them to actually taking action to get you the goal that you want.
Lantigua: I'm ready.
Mathur: All right. So tell me a little bit about in the next six months to one year, if you did not have to worry about how it was going to happen, what would an ideal life look like for you?
Lantigua: In the next six months to a year? I'm probably a lot like what I have now. So I work from home. I love working from home. I'm raising my kids with my ex-husband, who lives nearby, but separately. I have a routine with my family that we stick to, game nights on Wednesdays, swim class on Mondays. I have great neighbors and great friends nearby. So I see them periodically. I think the only difference that I would like to see is that I would be out going on dates.
Mathur: If we're going beyond six months to a year, what's the long-term goal?
Lantigua: So the long-term goal would be to be in a relationship with someone who is around my age, maybe a little bit older, who is an independent thinker. I really have enjoyed being an entrepreneur for the last four years. And so having someone and being in a relationship with someone who is also a creative or an entrepreneur, someone who can expand my own horizons and expand my own knowledge and teach me things that would be really exciting. It would also be great to have someone who has different interest than me. So that I could also explore those and do new things that I haven't tried before. But I'm not looking for another life partner at the moment. I don't really see that as something that appeals to me right now. I really want to continue to grow in the areas as a parent, as an entrepreneur, as a creative. And I want someone who's fun and smart to hang with, basically.
Mathur: Okay. So do you actually believe that an ideal partner exists for you that you would want to have a lifelong partnership with?
Lantigua: Of course, that person exists. But right now, I'm not looking for that. I'm not going from a 15-year marriage to a potential another marriage. That prospect doesn't appeal to me.
Mathur: Got it. Okay. So you don't want to jump into something without it being ideal, without it being right.
Lantigua: I wouldn't even say that. I think I'm really open to going on four or five, six dates with someone and seeing if that's the extent of it, or maybe there is someone who shares my passion for travel and we have a relationship in which we plan trips together and we go on these trips together. And because we live in different states, for example, that's the extent of the relationship, right? For me, it's more about the discovery of why this person is interesting. That's really more what I'm thinking about.
Mathur: What's that discovery going to get you? What's it going to give to you?
Lantigua: I'll hopefully learn stuff about myself, right? I'm in my mid-forties. And so I have a pretty good sense of who I am, but I know that I'm not done growing or I'm not done changing. I think it also will give me a chance to get outside of the way that I've defined my own life, which I'm very happy with. Right? I'm super happy with the way my life is right now, but how fun would it be to just realize, man, I never knew I liked badminton. Who knew, but I love it.
Mathur: Yeah. So it sounds like having new people in your life is going to give you the sense of adventure, that excitement, self-discovery, and just external experimenting with the world. Yeah. What's been stopping you from having that?
Lantigua: Oh, let's see. The separation only happened in February. And so I've been adjusting to the new normal. I think I have a pretty good sense of what the new normal is now. I also wanted time to get sort of spiritually and mentally back with myself. I also wanted to be cute again. So I started working out, I've dropped some lbs, so I wanted to also come back to the place where I felt confident. So, that's been that. I have children, I have two boys. And so I wanted to also make sure that they were at a place where the new normal really was the new normal for them. And so I wanted to be as present as possible for them. I've also been crazy busy with work and honestly, I haven't gone on a date in 15 years. So it's a little nerve-wracking to think about that. And COVID, right? Anytime anyone asked me about dating, I'd be like, "I'm not trying to be out in these COVID streets. "
Mathur: Yeah, what else? What else has stopped you from having these exciting adventures?
Lantigua: I have no idea what I would want. So that was the other thing that I wanted to give myself time because my ex-husband met a lot of my wishlist. And when I was 31, when we met, I knew exactly what I wanted. And now I feel like... It's not the same list at all. And so I also am thinking about what are some of the three or four just traits that I would want to begin with.
Mathur: Yeah. Okay. So getting clarity on what you want and how to find that is usually the next layer of it. What's the cost of not having this sort of fun partnership already? How's it affecting your life?
Lantigua: No one to snuggle with.
Mathur: Yeah.
Lantigua: Sometimes you just need to snuggle. And when on the weekends, when my guys, when my boys are with their dad, I definitely enjoy having the time alone. But sometimes I do want someone to go to see a movie with or if there's a new restaurant that opens, I'd want to invite someone other than my very, very, very loving neighbor who is up to do anything with me. And then just someone who is paying attention to what's important to me and the things that I'm doing, who will just offer the random compliment or who will just rub my shoulder and be like, I know today was hard. So I miss those things. The sort of like the small moments of just having someone who is paying attention.
Mathur: Sounds like loneliness a little bit here and there.
Lantigua: It is definitely a little bit of loneliness.
Mathur: Okay. If you could overcome some of these challenges like your day-to-day schedule, your inability to figure out what you want and how to find it, what would this do for you? What would it actually look like on the other end of having these things? What would you get from it?
Lantigua: A little bit of a distraction from everything else. And it would just give me someone who is interested in seeing what's this Juleyka girl up to this week. I'm interested because she's interesting and she's done these things, and I'm curious to see what else she's going to do. Right? So that's how a lot of my friendships function that my friends are so interesting that I'm always like, what are you going to do next? And who are you going to transform into? I've changed since I was 31. I hope that whoever I end up being in a relationship with also feels like there's been considerable movements in their life. And that there's still to be more movements in their life. I don't want someone who feels like this is it. This is all I ever need to do for the rest of my life. That's the opposite of what I would like to have.
Mathur: Okay. How do you see a coach supporting you?
Lantigua: Maybe they can call me on excuses. Like if 10 months I still haven't downloaded an app or gone on a date.
Mathur: Okay.
Lantigua: Maybe they can call me on other tendencies that I have, like focusing too narrowly on things, putting work ahead of everything except my sons. So things like that, sort of like when I'm getting in my own way. I think the big one is helping me to see where I am following gender norms because I think a lot of what happened in my previous relationship is that I really followed gender norms. And then it was really hard and disruptive to the relationship when I stopped or when I wanted to stop following gender norms for both of us, male and female gender norms. And so I definitely don't want to be in a relationship where traditional gender norms are valued as much.
Mathur: So I want to reflect some things that I hear and what you're saying. So I know you a little bit more than the last 10 minutes or so that we've been talking, but not really all that much. And so I want to just tell you that I don't need to be right about anything that I'm about to say. So if it rubs you the wrong way, tell me with whatever gusto you want to use. And also my request is that you're open to hear it.
Lantigua: I'm ready, coach.
Mathur: So here's the thing. The first thing you said was a coach can bring me accountability. The thing that I hear, which is probably what makes you really successful in other areas of your life, except for in self-love and romantic relationships, because this is how I am as well. The way that you're being about your life right now reminds me of how I am and how I've been. Especially, post-divorce.
Mathur: There's a lot of like, I need to be a certain way. There's like a lot of forcing things. Hold me accountable coach, keep me in check. And that's often because we're not trusting ourselves to come from the things that we're committed to ourselves naturally. So I'm committed to not adhering to traditional gender norms when they're not empowering, but I need someone else to tell me. And in work, for example, especially powerful women who are successful like yourself, we tend to let that work for us, right? Forcing, working harder, trying, like just push, push, push willpower will get us there. But the opportunity in romantic relationships and our relationships to ourselves is to actually move away from willpower and forcing another dose of positive energy on ourselves. And to instead move into having all of these things come with ease.
Mathur: We'll just use the gender norms thing. I'm committed to not having a relationship that falls into traditional gender norms. And so who am I going to be about it towards myself and how can I build trust towards myself that it's not going to happen, regardless of a coach. Like your coach, your friends, they can all remind you. But at the end of the day, that goes away just like willpower gets exhausting sometimes. The other thing that seems a little bit red flaggy to me is the right now I don't want a serious relationship. Now I get it, because when the breakup is new, it's absolutely okay to be in healing mode to want to grow and develop where you're at. But even in the way that you speak, I feel that there is like you're keeping intimacy at arm's length, the emotional intimacy. And this is just like my own experience of you.
Mathur: And it's okay right now to be where you're at. There might be a little bit of like a fear of looking at the future of what that might be because you just got out of something that hurt from being emotionally intimate with somebody. What I'm seeing is that there's some hurt and that hurt and that fear can cause us to think that the next relationship or another serious intimate relationship, not just sexually, but also emotionally that it's going to have to be difficult and hard, not just the process of being in it, but also the readiness for it. And it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be a struggle to find someone really great no matter what timeline you're on, post-breakup. You might find that when you're setting that hurt aside, you're finally able to say, okay, well, yeah, this person's fun and exciting and we've had a great time, and I could potentially see a long-term thing with them.
Mathur: And I just want to emphasize again, any nervousness, any hesitation in dating, especially after what you're going through is totally normal. Allowing yourself to be in it, which is what it sounds like you're doing is great. Like actually allowing yourself to process it the way you need to is great. What I'm hearing though is there's not necessarily either a readiness or a willingness to want to find a long-term partnership yet.
Lantigua: Yeah, definitely not.
Mathur: Yeah. And that's totally fine. I think the opportunity is to intentionally know that you're working towards that and to not potentially pretend that you don't actually want that again in the future. And again, I could be wrong, but just double-check that you're not pretending that the long-term goal is in fact, or shying away from the fact that the long-term goal is to actually have somebody to have forever, one single partner.
Lantigua: I don't think so, honestly.
Mathur: Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Okay.
Lantigua: I've thought a lot about it. I really have, I really have thought a lot about it because I'm very intentional about where I am in terms of coming back into myself, and part of what I've basically have thought about is, well, what does it look like in five years? And what does it look like in 10 years, if I'm just simply dating? And actually, that vision is very encouraging for me, the possibilities of not being anchored because there's so many things that I want to do.
Mathur: Yeah, totally. And that kind of goes back to the way you're defining, being anchored could mean a ton of different things. And it sounds like you're still in the process of discovering what it means to be in a relationship, but not be anchored, married, sharing finances, all of those things. That's totally fine.
Lantigua: Exactly.
Mathur: You're on a path that seems really all that you want right now.
Lantigua: Oh, Thanks. That's so affirming. I appreciate it. I really appreciate it.
Lantigua: All right. Here's what we, I mean, me, learned today.
Trust your commitments instead of always pushing and forcing your willpower. Think about your commitments to yourself and trust that focusing on them will help you reach your goals with ease.
Acknowledge the hurt. Hesitation is normal and expected, especially after a breakup. So let yourself heal and process it in your own way.
And remember, check in with yourself. Questioning what you want in a relationship and why you want it will help you be more intentional about what you're looking for and how to find it.
Lantigua:
Thank you, Coach Varsha, for serving as a sounding board and sharing your expertise so generously with me and with our listeners. We are thrilled to have you as our guest on this special series.
You'll find a link to Coach Varsha's website in our show notes and there you can learn more about her work as a dating and relationship coach. Thank you for listening and thank you for sharing us. How to Talk to [Mami & Papí] About Anything is an original production of LWC studios. Virginia Lora is the show's producer. Kojin Tashiro is our mixer. Manuela Bedoya is our marketing lead. I'm the creator, Juleyka Lantigua. On Twitter and Instagram, we're @talktomamipapi. Bye, everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua, Juleyka, host. “Dating, But Not to Get Married”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything,
LWC Studios., February 7, 2022. TalkToMamiPapi.com.