Brenda thinks it’s time for her Mexican family to speak openly about her father’s infidelity and newly-discovered half-sister, but she's ambivalent about starting the conversation. And marriage and family therapist Gilza Fort Martinez offers advice for creating the right context, choosing the time and place, and exercising sensitivity around family revelations.
Featured Expert:
Gilza Fort-Martinez is a bilingual licensed marriage and family therapist with over 25 years of experience in conflict resolution, interpersonal relationships, women’s challenges and life transitions, she has successfully helped individuals in the community rediscover and create paths of resolution that have turned their lives around. Through honest feedback and a solution-driven approach, My Navigational Mapping™, she meets patients where they are emotionally and guides them in building an abstract comprehensive roadmap that helps increase self-awareness, and explores safe paths that bring them to a place of emotional wellness. Learn more about Gilza's work here.
If you loved this episode, listen to She's Trying to Close the Emotional Gap with Papí and Telling Mamí You Use Weed.
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Juleyka Lantigua:
Hi, everybody. Brenda is visiting with us today. A few years ago, Brenda found out she has a half-sister that she's never met. It's a painful subject for her Mexican family, one no one wants to talk about. Even Brenda has been reluctant to bring it up. But some recent developments have her thinking that maybe it's time to talk, though she's really uncertain about how to even start the conversation. Let's get into it.
Brenda: My name is Brenda Gonzalez and I am the co-creator and co-host of the Tamarindo podcast based in LA, and I called my parents Mami and Papi growing up. We were a very tight-knit family. We immigrated to the United States because my brother was diagnosed with a terminal illness. He passed away when he was 17. And of course, that event made my parents and I even closer, having experienced such a terrible loss, when I was 11,at the time. I did not know that it was a terminal illness. What he had was muscular dystrophy. But when he died, my parents revealed to me that this was something that they knew would eventually happen.
What comes to mind when I think about family secrets, one is not so much a harmful secret, but more being shielded from difficult truths. As I got older, I became aware of another big, huge secret. My mother, she learned that my father had an affair. They worked it out and we didn't talk about that also. But eventually a few years later after that, my mother told me a little bit more, that there was a child as a result of this affair.
When my mom found out about this other daughter, the agreement was that there would be no relationship. And it was 18 years later that my mom found out that there was a relationship. This was just recently revealed to me.
My parents are always together, but there was a rare occasion where my mom and I were able to go to a healing event. It was an event centered around meditation. It was an event centered around opening your heart and journaling, but instead of journaling, what my mother decided to do is to use that time to tell me this big secret. And we talked about it during the event. We talked about it during the drive from the event. And then when we got home, my mom told my dad, “Brenda knows everything!” And then that was it. We never talked about it again.
I'm actually relieved that there's been a relationship with this daughter, but my mother feels doubly lied to. Right now, at this point, we haven't talked about it as a family. I feel conflicted because I want to understand and forgive my father because I think he carries a lot of guilt, and I want to tell my mother that doing so doesn't in any way mean I don't love or respect her. I want her to feel love and supported as well.
I think my mother would really value us having a conversation. So even though I'm concerned about how she might feel, my mother has said “maybe we should have a talk.” I'm all, "Maybe... ugh!" And I run away.
I guess the one thing that I'm learning about me is that I'm really good at compartmentalizing. I'm really good at staying happy and positive. Perhaps part of my hesitation is being in a vulnerable situation or space. And while I can admit to that, I also am a little bit saddened that my relationship with my parents as an adult has become very superficial. We don't go very deep. And I understand that probably the reason it's been that way as an adult is because of this tension of these secrets. We probably should have a conversation, but I want to think about what's the right way to do it.
I think that my mom and I would like to build more trust for my dad, and I think that part of that trust requires that he be truthful with himself. I think that my dad himself could probably benefit from learning what he wants. If it means that he would like to have a relationship with his daughter, both of his daughters, then he needs to decide that. And then my mom and I need to decide if that's okay with us. The other thing that I want to uncover for myself is do I want to have a relationship with this person that I'm related to?
I would tell my parents that first and foremost, I have come to appreciate that they are people beyond my parents and that I want the best for each of them. And I want them to each be honest with what they want and be honest with each other and the people that they love. I think that there's an opportunity for all of us to have a closer and more honest bond, and that's going to require a difficult conversation to get there.
Lantigua: As I listened to Brenda tell her story, I was really moved by her self-awareness. She knows that she and her family are avoiding a very difficult conversation. And she also knows that they're probably doing it out of fear of hurting her mom and dredging up that past. But she also knows that not talking about it is hurting her relationship with both her parents.
Now, as I think about the secrets that our families keep, I wonder what's the point? Do we actually get what we think we're going to get from keeping secrets? And what impact do they ultimately have on us as individuals and on our relationships? So of course, to help us figure it out, I called in an expert.
Gilza Fort Martinez:
My name is Gilza Fort Martinez. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I've been practicing over 25 years. I'm not sure I always like to say that. But one of the things that I really have done most of my career is working with families, helping them through transitions, the stuff that life throws at us.
Lantigua: As you listened to Brenda's story, what did you hear?
Fort Martinez: First and foremost, I just loved Brenda. I thought she was not only clear and just really aware, but just loved the perfect example of our cultural tendency. Maybe it's in a lot of cultures, but definitely for us as Hispanics, as Latinas, right, to ignore the pink elephant in the room.
Lantigua: Let's talk about it because secrets really are part of Latino culture. I'm sure that other cultures can say the same, but I can only speak about our culture. And in this instance, it felt like there was a secret inside a secret inside another secret.
Fort Martinez: Right.
Lantigua: How does this come to be? What are the dynamics at play?
Fort Martinez: Well, I think that if you asked certainly a traditional Hispanic or Latina family, they would not tell you that this is a secret. I mean, Brenda said, right, everybody knew that there had been an affair that there had been a child from that. So most of the times our families wouldn't call these secrets.
We tend to call it more protection. This is about shielding, particularly children. Usually it's coming from a place of love... not always, but usually. We want to protect the characters in the play as well. Potentially we wanted to protect Brenda and Papi's relationship. Right? So maybe Mami didn't want to throw him under the bus. Maybe Mami wanted to protect herself too. This was a situation of a lot of hurt and sense of disappointment.
You know, Juleyka, in our Hispanic cultures, historically it has been known that men have mistresses, second families and still infidelity is still a very hurtful, painful situation. So my long-winded point is that this is probably not a secret, but really just how do we just keep everybody safe, protected, and cocooned?
Lantigua: I completely see your point, but I want to push back a little bit because often in our culture, we do things for the "sake of the children" that is actually more for the sake of the adults.
Fort Martinez: Correct.
Lantigua: So is the secret keeping really more for the sake of the adults? And then how does the child of secret keepers break the cycle if they want to break that cycle?
Fort Martinez: I think that's a great point. Very often it is about protecting the adults. In infidelity there's shame, there's disappointment, there's embarrassment. So it is about protecting. When a child wants to go up against these really long-ingrained ways that families function, these underwritten rules of families, it requires a great deal of courage. When I talk to clients like Brenda that are really wanting to shift some things in their families, it takes a little bit of a preparation, of a reflection on their part in order to really get not only the family but themselves ready for a hard conversation.
Lantigua: So there has to be a decision that we're going to break this secret keeping cycle. And then there has to be preparation.
Fort Martinez: Ideally.
Lantigua: Without giving your secret sauce away, what are some of the things that are necessary as we prepare?
Fort Martinez: I think that with any good conversation, one that's going to be productive and beneficial, I think there's a few things that we want to keep in mind. First of all, what's your intention? Why do you want to have this conversation? What information is it that you're wanting to get? Is it factual information? So in Brenda's case, does she have more questions about the whole incident or is there more about wanting to understand, again, the characters in the story.
Another piece of this, creating the time and the space because most of us say, well, we'll just figure this out and we'll do it on the ad lib. I really wouldn't encourage that. That would mean that we would tend to be maybe a little bit more emotional, a little bit more volatile and maybe not get all the information or get the results that we want. So it's about creating…And what I mean by time, I would say to Brenda for her to first think about who she is. Is she a morning person or is she a night person? Okay? Is she a person that works better off the cuff or is she a planner? I remember her saying that her mother had said, well, I think we should have this talk. And that she's the one that said, whoa, wait a minute. Now that they want to have it, I don't know if I'm ready.
Lantigua: If I'm ready!
Fort Martinez: Exactly! So it sounds like Brenda's a little bit more of a planner, so creating that time. Okay. And then, of course, being mindful. Again, are her parents morning or evening people also? You want to try to create the setting.
What I mean by space is, all right, so do you want to do that at home? Her home? Their home? In a public place? Do we do this in a restaurant or do we do this out in a park?
And then the other two parts of good conversations to me are timing and delivery. The timing of when you decide to bring this up and then many times how you deliver a conversation almost is more important than what you're saying. Right? So to me, it would be her to think about those four points first: Her intentions, how to create the time and the space that's going to be mutually convenient, conducive to this kind of an emotional conversation, timing, and then delivery.
Lantigua: I love that it is such a useful breakdown. I want to ask you about two things that stood out to me that she said. One, she talked about how she believes herself to be someone who is good at compartmentalizing her emotions. And to me, every time I hear someone say that, it's a red flag. How do you react and respond when your clients say, "Oh, but I'm just really good at compartmentalizing," as a way to explain away certain things?
Fort Martinez: Well, often what I ask them to do is to share their compartments with me-
Lantigua: Open the drawers. Let me see your drawers.
Fort Martinez: ... and tell me what's in each little compartment. And sometimes that at least allows for us to be playful as you start to step into emotions, feelings that may be difficult. Yeah.
Lantigua: Is this a useful framework is what I'm asking?
Fort Martinez: Well, I mean, I think that all the tools that we use to manage our emotions, we have to honor them, Juleyka. But I hear what you're asking me. Long term, compartmentalizing isn't as helpful. And in this case, Brenda's saying it. Her relationship has become much more superficial with her parents. So it can serve a purpose in the moment, right? Boom. You get this incredible news. Oh my God, my father had an affair and had a child. Oh my God, I have a sister after I lost my brother. So it's a lot of information where compartmentalizing at first serves as like a shock absorber, like what happens in the car.
Lantigua: I like that analogy. Yeah.
Fort Martinez: It gives you a let me just take a breath here. Like we say in Spanish, dame un memento, un momentico. It serves, but it can't go on forever.
Lantigua: All right. Any other dos and don'ts that you can just give us for this type of conversation, for other sensitive and difficult conversations from your vast experience with difficult conversations?
Fort Martinez: I mean, I really think that a big piece of this is our own mindset with this. So when you want to have a difficult conversation, ask yourself how come and what you want to get out of it. Because that way that allows you to go into this from a loving mindset versus an accusatory mindset.
Lantigua: Okay. Okay. That makes sense.
Fort Martinez: So if you don't have somebody to do this with, meaning a trusting friend or something, this is the kind of conversation I would probably encourage somebody to get a couple of sessions in with a professional to really help them lay the groundwork and/or even have the conversation. I've had plenty of those truth bomb conversations happen in my office.
Lantigua: All right. For your last question, because you just inspired me to think about, in your professional experience, are there circumstances under which you should actually decide not to have the conversation?
Fort Martinez: Certainly the overall parameters would be where there is safety concerns. Right? So if there's issues of potential violence or if there is longstanding substance abuse that could derail a conversation like that, yeah, sometimes the protection aspect of a secret becomes more important.
Lantigua: Gilza, thank you so much. You've been an absolute joy to have on the show. Please, please come back.
Fort Martinez: You're welcome. I'd love to come back.
Lantigua: Okay. Here's what we learned from Gilza today.
Reflect on your intention. Identify why you want to talk about the secret. Do you want facts? Do you seek understanding? Are you trying to solve a conflict or do you just want the tea? Know your goal.
Create the right time and space, emphasis on create. Pick the time and the setting where you and your family will be most comfortable and calm. The mood, physical space, and time of day when you speak are all part of the strategy.
And remember, get support. If getting into the right mindset is proving challenging, get some professional help. A few sessions with a counselor or a therapist could make all the difference. They can prepare you and they can even facilitate the conversation about family, family secrets, and what happens in the aftermath.
Monica Lopez: Thank you for listening and sharing us. How to Talk to Mami & Papi About Anything is an original production of LWC Studios. Virginia Lora is our show's producer. Kojin Tashiro is our mixer. Elizabeth Nakano mixed this episode. Manuela Bedoya is our marketing lead, and Juleyka Lantigua is the creator and host. I'm senior editor Monica Lopez. On Twitter and Instagram, we're @talktomamipapi. Bye everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua, Juleyka, host. “Should She Confront a Family Secret?”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] about Anything,
LWC Studios., October 3, 2022. TalkToMamiPapi.com.