Ana Sheila wants her traditional Mexican mom to know about her cannabis use. But the stigma around recreational drug use stops her. And Oriana Mayorga, an activist with Students for Sensible Drug Policy, shares strategies for speaking with parents about drugs with a social justice lens.
Ana Sheila is the cohost of Tamarindo Podcast.
Featured Expert:
Oriana Mayorga (she/her/hers) is a community organizer dedicated to dismantling structural oppression, promoting racial justice, and ending violence against women. She is a longtime advocate of ending the war on drugs, fighting for accessible psychedelic medicine for all, and centering the needs of people of color in the movement. She is currently the Vice Chair of the board of directors for Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP), a global youth-led grassroots network dedicated to ending the War on Drugs. SSDP brings young people of all political and ideological orientations together to have honest conversations about drugs and drug policy. They aim to generate policy change, deliver drug education, and promote harm reduction. Oriana received her bachelor of science from Fordham University in 2014 and a graduate certificate in Harm Reduction Psychotherapy from the New School of Research in 2016. In 2022, she will graduate with her Masters of Divinity with a concentration in social ethics from Union Theological Seminary.
Oriana recommends this list of resources and this peer education program on drug policy and drug education issues.
If you loved this episode, be sure to listen to Telling Mom About Using Cannabis And Being a Budtender. and Telling Mamí She Needs Mental Help.
We’d love to hear your stories of triumph and frustration so send us a detailed voice memo to virginia@lwcstudios.com. You might be on a future episode! Let’s connect on Twitter and Instagram at @TalkToMamiPapi and email us at hello@talktomamipapi.com. And follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Juleyka Lantigua:
Hi everybody. Today I'm speaking with Ana Sheila. Ana Sheila has tackled many hard conversations with her Mexican mom. But even now as an adult, the topic of cannabis is so difficult for her to bring up. But she really wants to push through for the sake of their relationship and also for the bigger social implications of breaking taboos around recreational drug use. Let's get into it.
Ana Sheila: My name is Ana Sheila. I'm the oldest of two. I was born in Mexico City, but when I was four my family and I immigrated to Little Village, a Mexican and Puerto Rican neighborhood in Chicago. I'm a business and mindset coach for Launch Latinx. I'm also the co-host of the Tamarindo podcast. And at the beginning of 2021, I actually decided to move back from LA to Mexico City for the first time since I was four. And that's where I'm currently based. And growing up, I always called my mom and dad, mami and papi.
They were a traditional Catholic family. My mom was very loving, but definitely very traditional. And so growing up, the only way that I could sleepover at someone's house is if my mom knew the parents. And so, which means that I only got to sleep at one friend's house because she knew the parents. As I was assimilating more to American culture, the longer that we were growing up in the US the more that we felt the distance between my parents and my little brother and I.
I didn't smoke weed until I was actually a senior in college because I did grow up pretty religious. I had the sense of what it looked like to live a morally upstanding life and using drugs seemed like that was not aligned with it. And I was also just scared of it, right. And then a few years after that, I tried it again. And then I saw some of the benefits that I've felt. I felt much more relaxed. I tend to be more anxious. And I'm also just generally stressed. I was always just kind of a perfectionist. And it was hard for me to relax. And so through weed, I found a way to relax.
Ana Sheila: And actually, I also saw that it sparked my creativity. It sparked a lot of thoughts and ways of thinking that I wasn't always able to access. Yeah. I mean, it took me sort of breaking what I thought about what drugs were, what weed was, and realizing that there was a lot of stigma around weed that wasn't fair, and that it's actually really supportive to a lot of people. And not as addicting as even things like coffee, for example, at least for me personally.
It felt really hard to talk about this with my mom. I'm gay, and it did take a long time to share this with her. You would think that now that I've told her this, what else could be as hard as telling her about my orientation. And what I realized was that while my identity is my truth, it's not something that I can change. Whereas I also have a tattoo, but having a tattoo or smoking weed or anything else feels like that is a choice that I'm making and felt scared about telling her and what she might think about the type of person that I am based on what she believes to be a good person is or does.
There is a little bit of fear of judgment and having to go through another, sort of... obviously a much less difficult coming out, but there is a part of me that does want to tell her because I do feel like there is an unfair stigma. I feel like a lot of people have been unfairly incarcerated for things like weed before it was legal in California and in other states. And so it feels important to be able to keep having the conversation around weed and how drugs have been used to really oppress and incarcerate communities.
And I have planted, little seeds, having conversations around weed and making the comparison to alcohol and how alcohol is actually more harmful and dangerous in terms of what people do when they're under the influence of alcohol. But I haven't actually shared with her that sometimes I smoke weed. She sees weed as like a gateway drug to other things. So there definitely is a negative perception of it. But I also think there is space for her to understand and accept, even if she doesn't agree. And I say that because I have seen her do that in other places growing up, right? Including my orientation. And now it's not a thing about disagreement and agreement. She fully supports me, but it was something that she didn't understand. Right. When I first told her.
I haven't really thought about how I would approach the conversation, what would it look like. All right. How would I start? “Hola mamí, ¿cómo estás?” I would probably start with a little voice like that. Okay. Let me try it in English. And see if that works. "I've been wanting to tell you something," wow, this is actually super hard. I think what I try to remind myself of is that remembering that their context is different and just understanding, and having compassion for where they're coming from and their perspective. And so I think that's where I would start from.
Lantigua: Ana Sheila's fear of being judged by her mom is so real. There's so much stigma around cannabis and recreational drug use, especially among immigrant families and especially in black and brown communities. Honestly, her fear feels totally reasonable to me. So to help us figure out how to even begin these conversations, you know what I did. I called in an expert.
Oriana Mayorga:
My name is Oriana Mayorga. My pronouns are she/her. I am a third-year masters of divinity student at Union Theological Seminary. And I am also a board director, as well as the equity strategists for an organization called Students for Sensible Drug Policy. It's the world's largest youth-based international organization fighting to end the war on drugs.
Lantigua: You heard Ana Sheila's story. What did you hear in it?
Mayorga: I heard so much. I heard a struggle that I have a lot of resonance with, especially as someone who's been doing work in drug policy, and especially as a drug user. The internal conflict of both wanting to share with parents and the difficulty in that because of the culture.
Lantigua: So let's pick up on that because you are not just someone who is recreationally enjoying marijuana and other substances. You are someone who is trying to change policy around them. And so you definitely have a much deeper understanding than the average person. What are some of the fears that folks like your parents and Ana Sheila's parents have around recreational drug use?
Mayorga: I think to start our parents and us, right, we all, unfortunately, because of the war on drugs, we didn't have access to fact-based drug education. So a lot of the education that we have, which is mostly informal of our parents, right? That wasn't a part of their curriculum at school. They didn't have any DARE officers come in, comes from word of mouth, the news. That's how they picked up their information about drugs. And so I always talk about the fact that the definition of a drug is actually literally just any substance, whether it's natural or artificial, other than food, that by its chemical nature alter structure in the living person. Right?
So I use Aleve, all the time, right? I drink coffee, I drink chamomile. I am a drug user of both illicit and illicit substances. And I think our parents, I don't think they have the same understanding of what a drug is. I think they classify drugs as just all bad. And there's a deep moral, this idea that morality is tied to drugs like Ana Sheila said in her share with us, that it gets really conflicted and it's not about morality. It's a super multifaceted phenomena that's complex, that has to do with your bio, and your psych, and your social. It's not just about whether a person's good or bad.
Lantigua: Since Colorado was the first state to decriminalize the recreational use of marijuana, there's been a more pronounced social justice angle to the decriminalization of substances specifically led by marijuana. and Ana Sheila says that part of why she wants to have a conversation with her mom about her use is that she sees it as part of a broader de-stigmatization. Now, can you sort of give us the umbrella argument for why this is important because of the actual consequences to people in real life?
Mayorga: Absolutely. So I'm going to put on my harm reduction hat here and say that-
Lantigua: Looks good on you.
Mayorga: Thank you! That one of the biggest problems with stigmatizing drug users, right, is that it literally leads to their death. And so shame is a big killer, I would say. People often die alone. Folks who are dying from fentanyl overdoses are dying alone with no one that has access to Narcan. And it can start from a very small place, like the language that we use, not being human-centered, that just dehumanizes people who are using substances. And that is a ripple effect to the disproportionate amount of black and brown people who are incarcerated. Right.
And a great concrete example I would say is that unfortunately for the Latino population, marijuana possession is deemed to be the fourth most common cause of deportation for our Latino community in the US. That's outrageous. Right?
Lantigua: Yeah.
Mayorga: And so de-stigmatizing drug users is essential so that the body count doesn't keep increasing.
Lantigua: I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate here because part of what I see in my family and the extended Latino community specifically is a serious denial about our innocence and about how we're not the ones that are doing these things, that we're not the ones that are overdosing, that we're not the ones who are dealing. This is not happening in my family. This is not happening in my backyard. And that seems to be the stands for a lot of things like police brutality and the over-incarceration of young black and brown men. What is it going to take for us to wake up from that myth that we keep selling ourselves?
Mayorga: I shudder hearing you say that because I know what you're talking about and I still want it to not be the case. I would say that this idea that it is not us, right. We are not them. We're not the people using substances, I think comes from... it's the impact. It's internalized oppression, I think, right. We have been so othered in this country, especially children of immigrants. We've been so othered. We are so different. We literally look and sound different. Our feet are in two different cultures, two different worlds at all times.
I think that that othering, which is a result of course of capitalism and colonization and all the big awful dominant oppressive structures is what motivates this idea of, "No, but we're not like them." We're actually different in a special way. And unfortunately the conflation I think becomes, with morality, right? We're innocent. And that is so problematic. And so when you ask, what is it going to take? I think it's going to take Latinas and Latinos and Latine folks to be the ones educating our communities. With fact-based information, drug policy information.
Mayorga: We do not need cops with badges in our classrooms teaching our children about drug use. Not only did that fail, right? It actually made students do drugs way more. What it's going to take for this to change is we're going to need our people to go into those classrooms and be present in our community and teach our youth and our young adults and our older adults what the war on drugs is, having a historical lens.
Lantigua: All right. So let's give people some talking points, right? If we're going to go, Ana Sheila is going to go, other listeners are going to go try and have this conversation. What are the top-line talking points?
Mayorga: I think a great approach with parents, mamí, papí specifically, especially for someone like Ana Sheila, who mentioned that she was a business and mindset coach, right? She was successful. I would hope, I'm not a parent yet, but I would hope that what parents want ultimately is for their children to be happy, healthy, and safe. One entry point could be talking about the discovery of something that's actually making you feel better, right? That's allowing you to actually be maybe even more productive, helping me succeed more.
Mayorga: And while I do get nervous about stigmatizing necessarily pharmaceuticals, I think for most Latino families, there's this idea that if something is natural, cannabis specifically is a plant medicine, right. And we know that addiction to cannabis is extremely low. Some people argue that it doesn't even exist. Whereas maybe medicine for anxiety would come with a couple of other side effects. Right? And so I think an entry point for young people that are talking to mamí and pap´í is really bringing up and highlighting and centering the benefits that you've discovered. Even speaking about what was the turning point for you? Why is it that you decided to take a risk? Right. I mean, I would think that most people who suffer, let's say from anxiety or other ailments are looking for some relief. Those are the places that I would start.
Lantigua: So the mythology around womanhood, around daughterhood. The mythology around gender specifically related to women, does not allow for the autonomy to say, "I enjoy this and I'm going to continue enjoying it." So you've got the taboo related to the drug use and it gets compounded by the patriarchal limitations that are placed upon women. How do we navigate those or begin to navigate those without telling everybody to go fry plantains?
Mayorga: [Laughter] Something that I heard Ana Sheila say repeatedly was that her coming out process was not overnight. Right. And that mami didn't accept that the next day. And that it was a matter of maybe her struggle, the mother's struggle with Ana Sheila's identity was in a place of not knowing. Right. So I do think there's something about the unknown. And so, yeah. I mean, I don't have the solution for uprooting the patriarchy although my goodness, I would-
Lantigua: You'd share it if you did, right? Obviously.
Mayorga: Right? But I do think firstborn daughters of immigrants, yes, they have a double burden, right. The patriarchal structure on top of us. And then this idea that, are we even allowed to experience pleasure? Right. I think it's one thing to say, "Okay, I'm using cannabis because it makes me feel better because I'm sick." It's a lot harder to justify recreational use to our parents. And so I would argue that a similar approach Ana Sheila did with her parents about coming out about her identity, it's going to take time. It's not going to be overnight.
Mayorga: And in fact, I would say the best tip and trick I would say is to invite your parent to come with you to let's say a movie screening or to read an article with you as a weekly practice, as a monthly practice, to slowly start to show them the different types of language that's used to explain drug use. And maybe with time that will help change the culture that they have.
Ana Sheila: That is a perfect segue to my last question, which is, can you suggest some resources, also bilingual ones in Spanish and English that people can utilize?
Mayorga: So I would say 1, 2, 3 resources right now. I always de facto go to the Drug Policy Alliance website every time for up-to-date information. And then the organization that I'm part of SSDP has an incredible free program called Just Say Know, K-N-O-W. And it's really comprehensive... Ain’t that cute?
Lantigua: Yeah, I love that.
Mayorga: It's a really comprehensive drug education program actually created by one of the only Latina directors at SSDP. And you can join SSDP as a student, and you can also join it as a community member. There's no age limit. And I believe we're trying to get our resources there translated completely in Spanish. So that would be my two suggestions at the moment.
Lantigua: Thank you so much.
Mayorga: Definitely. Thank you so much too.
Lantigua: All right. Let's recap what we learned from Oriana. Talk about your own turning point, open up about how you came to think differently about cannabis, and explain the physical and emotional benefits that you have experienced. Invite them in. Don't pass the blunt yet, but share movies or articles or interviews with your loved ones that will expose them to a different point of view and help them to understand where you're coming from. And remember, add some history, talk about the effects of the war on drugs, and other punitive law practices. And highlight the humanity of everyone who has been hurt by these policies.
Lantigua: Thank you for listening and thank you for sharing us. How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything is an original production of LWCC studios. Virginia Lora is the show's producer. Kojin Tashiro is our mixer. Manuela Bedoya is our social media editor. I'm the creator Juleyka Lantigua. On Twitter and Instagram, we are @talktomamipapi. Please follow us and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts. Bye, everybody. Same place next week.
CITATION:
Lantigua, Juleyka, host. “Telling Mamí You Use Weed.”
How to Talk to [Mamí & Papí] About Anything,
LWC Studios., October 18, 2021. TalkToMamiPapi.com.